silentlambs	Friday, March 12, 2004 @ 12:01 PM
summit update website problems Back up and running We want you to know that things are ok on the website. The ISP went through a software upgrade that would help security on the website. The down side was we had some custom programming that was in conflict and causes the newsletter and the guestbook to become inoperable. Adjustments have been made and it appears that we are up and running again. The guestbook information from July through March of this year was corrupted and lost. We are checking backups of the website to try and restore this data it will take a few days and we will have to see. I hope it will be able to be archived. The newsletter is still dead but should be fixed soon and so I am posting this update here until we can put it up there. Now I must mention that things are coming together for the Summit. When silentlambs was founded three years ago the purpose of the organization was to help abuse survivors to have a voice. The leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses went to great length to say not only there wasn't a problem but that their policy on abuse was far superior to any other religion. After fifteen documentaries in eight different countries as well as hundreds of news and magazine articles it appears the real "truth" of these matters is there for anyone to see that may wish to do so. Thousands have been helped to see they are not alone; they were not at fault and have the right to stand up to those that hurt them. They are no longer silent lambs. Each event that silentlambs has planned has had that as its central purpose, that is, to allow abuse survivors to have a voice and show them they are believed and supported. The "silentlambs summit" will be yet another opportunity for those that wish to offer support and give a voice to those that cannot speak for themselves, if you see any event as important view this one as something significant for you to be apart of. You will not regret the time effort and expense put forth by supporting this conference. This is your chance to "walk the walk" so to speak and help be a voice to make a difference in the interests of protecting children. Now what are we doing to get you there? I have just been informed that Swedish Television will be there to do interviews for an update that will appear nationwide later this year. The National News Writer for the Associated Press will be there to cover the conference. Sue Archibald of Linkup (the oldest organization dealing with clergy abuse with thousands of members nationwide) will be there to speak and talk on abuse awareness issues. Barbara Blaine of SNAP as well as members from the local area will be there to speak on abuse awareness also. Silentlambs delegates are coming from Sweden, England, Africa, and Canada. Local television has asked to be there to do stories for the local news programs as well as the newspaper will be covering the conference. We are spending a tremendous amount of time effort and money to give you the platform to have a voice. Will you be there will you be there to support abuse survivors? We invite anyone that wishes to do so to be part of this conference. Jehovah's Witnesses will be there, X- Jehovah's Witnesses and many advocates that all have one simple goal, we want to protect children. If you feel that is important, be there and support the silentlambs summit. silentlambs
MIFFED OFF	Tuesday, March 16, 2004 @ 6:21 AM
V MIFFED OFF I agree with the last post it was my step father who abused me and his father was an elder whose only comment has been its a shame we all didn't sit round a table. i have had no visits and when it came out the circut overseer was there and he couldn't be bothered to come and see me. i have and will never set foot in the hall again
KL	Tuesday, March 16, 2004 @ 12:13 PM
Like I said... I refuse to worry about that issue. I do appreciate your concerns about my "confusion" however, but it is not my intent to debate this issue. This website was not intended for that. I know that some will say "Yes it is, because if all the remaining SilentLambs were to believe that it isn't Jehovah's Organization, then they would no longer be afraid to speak up." AND I UNDERSTAND THAT. HOWEVER, they should be made to understand that they should speak up regardless of whether it is Jehovah's WTBS or not, because it is OK to, because the WTBS is wrong on THIS issue, and not because it is or isn't HIS organization. What good does it do to try to convince them that it isn't? If you can't, then they remain silent. So why take that approach at all? Why not do what is in the interests of the victim, and not those of the one trying to "help"? I will not dismiss the WTBS as Jehovah's Organization just because they are incorrect on this issue, yet at the same time I refuse to honestly believe that the WTBS is HIS Organization just because of all the positives they display in relation to False Religion. But until a better FDS shows itself, then I will continue to support the current one in all it's dealings EXCEPT THIS ONE (dealing). Like I have said before, we will soon find out if it is or not. Either way, as long as I stay faithful to Jehovah, then I will not die. Right? And finally, if any of you can honestly say that when the WTBS finally realizes that it is incorrect on this issue and changes it's policies to fully support the victims, and there are no more Silent Lambs (because THAT IS THE GOAL HERE, RIGHT???), that you will change YOUR views about the WTBS and fully support IT, then I will respond to your next remarks. Otherwise, I will read them and say nothing, hoping someday that you too can stop making this issue about something it is not. SEE YOU IN CALI!!!!
ilidio	Tuesday, March 16, 2004 @ 12:46 PM
Hang in there V Miffed off V MIFFED OFF, This is usually the case that we never believed what was going on till it comes to us. Is at that point that we discover that the elders are not there to support us but to cover up whatever comes to light so that the congregation doesn't get a bad name. I don't know how long you have been out but for me it has been about 2 years. At first we were skeptical about celebrating what the JW's call world holidays. However my wife and I started doing just that about a year ago, I felt guilty at the beginning but not anymore. That has been the best thing for us. It makes us feel totally free from the watchtower org. Might I mention that my wife was born and raised as a JW till she came out at the age of 30 I was there for 15. Now we can say we have a life. We are finally free to think for ourselves. We are so happy that my son (16 months old) will finally be free and be able to enjoy life as a regular person. No more being told what to do, what to eat, how to dress and where to go. This is the best thing I can do for my son by letting him explore his limits to the maximum. Just hang in there. There is life after leaving the JW. I can assure you of that. If they no longer talk to you just don't worry about it they do the same thing to me and everyone else. I make an effort to talk to all the witnesses I meet. You should see how they run away from me. I don't care I still talk to all the witnesses I see. I actually have a kick at that. It is unbelievable how embarrassed they get. Remember one thing: true religion is based on 2 things: LOVE & FORGIVNESS. If they are not showing either that must tell you something.
ilidio	Wednesday, March 17, 2004 @ 6:36 AM
To: KL There you go again. You speak against the wtbs and than you defend them. Either you are with me or against me, you can not serve 2 masters, dit you not learn that at the kingdom hall? Yes, this site was designed for silentlambs, the problem is that they have been led and oppressed for so long that they do not know how to speak for themselves most of the times. Just for the record it is just not on this issue that they are wrong, unfortunately they are wrong on many others. You also mentioned that soon we will find out it is the right religion or not and if you stay faithful you will never die. Is that new light that just came from the WTBS? Did it come through the same channel as before? If so it is not reliable. Sorry to disappoint you but for over 100 years people have claimed that they will never die and guess what all of them died and still dieing . I have said it and say it once more, the light that you so talk about has been disconnected a long time ago. My wife completely disagrees with me on this issue, she claims that the light was never connected to the WTBS period. She is a smart woman she might be right on this one. You keep looking for something that does not exist, you keep waiting for something that will never come. I do feel sorry for you, I really do. WTBS changing its policies? Finally admitting that they were wrong? You live on that small world called Kingdom Hall where you only receive information from 1 channel. Please pay extra and get cable. It will be more expensive, but remember you get what you pay for.
ds	Wednesday, March 17, 2004 @ 8:00 AM
I BELIEVE JEHOVAH uses certain people.. "tools" to reveal matters. ex: Deborah in the bible.
AK	Wednesday, March 17, 2004 @ 10:52 AM
Eye Openers! I came across this site about a year ago. I was in a very 'vague' way aware that something was wrong in the organization in the matter of child abuse, but of course it was all hush-hush as per WTBTS policiy within the congregation. One thing that this site helped me and my wife to accomplish in our lives, was that it caused us to look at the organization in a whole new light after 30 years as faithful witnesses. We had become aware of a serious lack of love among the brotherhood due to matters (no abuse involved) that had happened in our own family, but did not know where else to look due to the constant teaching to avoid 'anything apostate'. In the past six months, we have read three books that helped us get a clear view of the organization and it's teachings, doctrine, and control. Proverbs 4:7 states " Wisdom is the prime thing. Aquire wisdom; and with all that you aquire, aquire understanding." Wisdom in matters of importance is dependent of knowledge. Knowledge that is restricted to a single source becomes propaganda and indoctrinal in nature. It creates 'tunnel vision', and begins to exclude reasonable thought. Many on these pages are at the early stages of considering the place where they stand before Jehovah as a part of this organization. Please, think and choose based on a broad base of understanding and freedom of thought, freedom of the sort that Paul refered to in Galatians 5:1. I know from where I speak as one who has been an active baptized supporter of this organization since I was a teenager, and now for over 32 years. It is your choice, don't let others make it for you. May the God of Peace and Hope, bless the spirit to do what is right that dwells within you! Jeff
vern	Wednesday, March 17, 2004 @ 2:23 PM
to like I said You seem to think that the child molestation is the only thing that the WTBS is wrong on. I think it would be beneficial for you to do some research on some of the many sites about the org. that are avaliable. You might start by checking about the watchtowers affliation with the united nations. Heres hoping you find the real truth------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-At sl we focus on protecting children and remain neutral on doctrine or beliefs.
the mole	Wednesday, March 17, 2004 @ 7:01 PM
the invitation the mole*** they came to invite me to the memorial but it was men who i didnt know. just as i have told before they mask the bones with white wash to appear clean. i asked them the same question like before as these younger ones like parrots performed their task like well pets. no answer same worn scrips why they think the org is clean and that nothing ever happend on nbc or nightline..just rumors to ignore and that evil doesnt exist in their realm of ignorance. give it a few more years and child molestion will be another of satans lies to discredit them and what they believe. these new elders bragged on the growth of the org which we know is number fudging but they praised the holy name for all the good they said they done...the mole
Jah's girl	Thursday, March 18, 2004 @ 1:01 AM
wrong again All ACCUSED pedophiles as well as those who have been convicted are on the same restrictions. And as you say, they stay on them for a minimum of 20 years. The courts only apply that to convicted offenders ( parole conditions) The two witness rule does not apply to either reporting abuse to the police or placing an accused person on restrictions. There were not two witnesses needed to have a former friend of mine disfellowshipped AND reported to the police, leading to his being imprisoned. Like I said - you have it ALL wrong. My father is an elder, BTW. I have seen some of the letters and of course read all the WT articles on this. They clearly state it is a moral obligation to report any abuse to the police even if it is not a legal requirement. ---------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Classic head in the sand reality....I was an elder for 20 years. Accused molesters do not have any restrictions, I know several that are serving as elders, circuit overseers and even members of the Governing Body. I see no restrictions as does their accusers. Perhaps you need to read the BOE letters then you might have a better perspective and not distort the facts of this matter as well as ask your father a few questions he might not care to answer.
M.A.N.	Friday, March 19, 2004 @ 10:55 AM
To jah's girl Before I get into anything with you, I want you to clarify a few things. You said your father is an elder. What letters have you seen? I hope not letters that only elders are supposed to see? Answer that question. Secondly, you are wrong about the two witness rule. I've heard numerous stories of a girl reporting that a male molested her. The accused man and the girl were then required to go to a JC meeting where 3 elders asked the molester if he did it. If he says no, that's the end of it. Some of these elders have even asked personal questions of the girl, who in many cases is still a child. Questions such as: where did he touch you, are you sure, what were you wearing, did you have an orgasm, did you allow it, did you like it, etc. First of all elders are not psychologists. I will have my Doctorate in Psychology soon and I wouldn't ask those questions. I would have a female police officer along with a psychologist (female) take care of the case. Any elder who would ask those questions is a pervert and should be shot. The penalty under the Mosiac Law for this crime was death. What would any elders know about psychology? No offense to bill or others who are intelligent and do humble work, but most elders I know are window washers or sell vacuum cleaners. Since the WT hates college so much, the Society has produced a group of elders who, with few exceptions, are ignorant, brain-washed, and drunk on power. They are failures in life and in their secular jobs, so they get off by being important in a group of ignorant, "can't have one single thought of their own" people who are too blind or stupid to see the truth. The WT is a cult, pure and simple. There is an old joke about testing something: it smells like sh*t, it tastes like sh*t, it feels like sh*t, glad I didn't step in it. Well, the WT not only steps in it, it manufactures it by the ton. Here are some facts for you: 49% percent of Jewish people graduate from college, 4.9% of JW's graduate. Most other religions fall between those two figures. That should tell you something. Allowing 12 old men who live in an ivory tower to tell you what to do is moronic. I've read every book the WT ever printed. I even own and read Studies in the Scriptures. I'm tired of the lies, cover-ups and flip- flops. Do you know that if Russell came back today, he'd never even recognize this religion? Child abuse is a criminal matter. It is none of the elders' business. If they want to DF someone, fine. But the police should be handling it. And even if they don't live in a "reporting state", common decency and a desire to see a pervert brought to justice and to prevent him from doing it again should move any decent human being to report it to the police instead of hiding behind the law. Someday the law will require that all 50 states report it. Then what are the elders going to do? Claim eclesiastical privilege? I thought the WT didn't have a clergy/laity class?? I guess they do. You better clarify your position and answer these questions. Jesus warned that all who do wrong will answer for it. That includes the GB, no matter how holy they or anyone else thinks they are. You also need to explain the story about the former friend, what he did, and what happened. The elders have never jumped on anyone's case if there was only one witness to the crime. They turn their heads and play dumb. It's easy to do, they don't have to try very hard since they are so close anyway. I lost my wife and child because my little girl was molested by a man who the elders knew was a molester and that he was visiting my home. They never warned me or my wife. They said they had no concrete proof. They had concrete all right, but it was between their ears. They will pay for what they did. As bill has pointed out many times, if you stumble the little ones, Jesus said you might as well go swimming with a chunk of concrete for a life raft. You are seriously deficient in IQ points. Find your brain.
KL	Friday, March 19, 2004 @ 11:09 AM
What?? Get Cable? And get rid of my DirecTV in High Definition? NO FREAKIN' WAY!!!! :) :) *** As for the other stuff, of course I didn't hear from the WTBS that I would never die. That is my own idea about who I can get everlasting life from - Jehovah, not the WTBS. That was my point. I will always serve Jehovah, whether it is through an organization or on my own, I just choose the WTBS as my current way of doing so. So what if I'm wrong - at least I'm there, able to watch over everything. I have no blinders, and I do not live in the Kingdom Hall world. I just choose not to talk against the WTBS and their mistakes/misunderstandings on other UNRELATED ISSUES. I am not a staunch supporter, nor am I a rabid hater. It is an organization of imperfect men and of course they have been wrong from time to time. BUT SO HAVE YOU AND I!!! Who are we to judge? How many times has the weather man been wrong, yet you still watch him every night anyway. You find me an organization of PERFECT humans on earth who serves Jehovah, and I'm all over it. *** And you didn't answer my question about your intentions. If you will not change your view of the WTBS if they change their policies on this matter, then you are proving that you are not interested in this issue at all, but are only interested in jumping from supposed error to error as a WTBS basher. *** AND THANK YOU, SILENTLAMBS, FOR REPLYING TO "Vern". United Nations - Geez! Reading into everything what they need to in order to further their apostate teachings. It is amazing how these people so readily believe everything they hear from Satan's world, but God forbid that I be allowed to believe what I hear from the WTBS. I am really getting tired of coming on here and having to sift through tons of anti-doctrine and anti-belief crap just to find what SHOULD be on here. You go, Bill!!--------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-At sl we have many brothers and sisters within the organization that quietly support our work. We may get a letter in the mail or a private email and occasionaly a post on the guestbook. Also there are those that were abused in the organization and have left for the circumstance they were put into. We understand there is much anger and that comes through on the guestbook. We allow JW's to express their views and xjws to the extent it relates to abuse, sometimes it may go further in order to allow others to understand the person's perspective. Speaking out on abuse is not always in a simple thought and encouraging an individual to write or speak you have to allow them to say what they feel. For those reasons what is on the Guestbook will probably always irritate someone but bear in mind at least it is a place where you can express a few thoughts about what you are feeling if that helps you find closure and healing then we have accomplished our purpose. We think as you will see we do not link to xjw websites, forums, or chatrooms nor do we allow links on the guestbook. For those that wish to accesss such material you can easily find it on any search engine. The focus of silentlambs remains protecting children and requesting better policies from Watchtower in that regard as well as raising abuse awareness to help others outside the JW environment. Read the sl mission statment and we think you will find we have stayed true to our mission in helping others. So try to be kind to one another, you are all here because of issues related to abuse whether it was personal or within your family. It is a link you all share. This is a place to try and heal while educating yourself about abuse.
Cheri Romero	Friday, March 19, 2004 @ 1:01 PM
To the mole Hey there friend, I have been trying to contact you for some time now. Please contact me then. I would like to see about emailing or meeting or something? Or if not, maybe you could just communicate with me here. Let me know. Cheri
Cheri Romero	Friday, March 19, 2004 @ 1:15 PM
To Jah's girl You my dear are not supposed to be on this website at all. Why are you here spouting crap that you are completely ignorant of. You are trying to sound knowledgable but instead you sound like an imbecile. What really amazes me is the ability that you members have of holding your hands over your eyeballs and mimicking what you have heard for so many years from men who (we know of one for sure) have been and are child molesters themselves. Think about it. Do your research. Gain knowledge and study the bible. THE BIBLE!!!!! Not just what they tell you to study. Not just what they wrote but the bible. Go back and look at the beginnings of the organization and see that these original men were sick men. It only stands to reason that child molesters would originate from the top. And it does. And they are there. Lurking. This is NOT what Jehovah wants. When the "brothers" (no brothers of mine tho) say "wait on Jehovah" and that "he will handle it in his time"? Well that time is now. He is handling it. Open your eyes for once or shut up and get off of this demonized site that you are forbidden to be on.
	Friday, March 19, 2004 @ 4:34 PM
To Ilidio, AK, and Jah's girl Ilidio and AK, I think your comments are great and so on the mark! Jah's girl, I think someone is pulling 'the wool over your eyes', that you have been misinformed, misled, and misguided. If things were generally going the way you seem to think they've been going, then there wouldn't be thousands of people turning to Silentlambs for help and support. There may be isolated cases few and far between which have been dealt with as you believe, but not most of them. Most of them have been so terribly mishandled that lives have been irrevocably damaged. These people have been horribly traumatized. This is not a lie. This is not being made up. It is factual. Facts are facts whatever an individual may choose to believe or want to believe. You need to look into the pedophilia situation more deeply, really investigate the issues here. Elders, by the way, are not encouraged to report the truth, the facts about pedophilia among Jehovah's Witnesses to the 'rank and file'. You may as well be talking to brick walls. Don't count on elders really leveling with you about abuse issues. Do your own investigating. Truly "investigate all things".
Jah's girl	Friday, March 19, 2004 @ 9:41 PM
How do you know? How do YOU know that any accused pedophiles are still serving as overseers? Have you adjudicated all these cases or is it just hearsay? My father is not a liar and he knows you have it all wrong. The BOE letters dont prove that anyone accused remains an overseer or servant and all the letters I have seen say the opposite. What ones are you reading?--------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-insults without facts perhpas you might wish to continue to educate yourself on this topic, BOE 6- 1-01, quote; "There is one exception to the above direction: The elders may have written to the branch office and given full details about a former child abuser who is currently serving as an elder or ministerial servant. In such a case, if the branch office has decided that he can be appointed or continue serving in a position of trust because the sin occurred many years ago and because he has lived an exemplary life since then, his name should not appear on the List, nor is it necessary to pass on information about the brothers past sin if he moves to another congregation unless contrary instructions have been given by the branch. If therefore, such an appointed man moves to another congregation a letter confirming the move should be sent, addressed to the Societys Legal Department." This of course is for confessed molesters, for those not confessed they get the benefit of this statement from the JW media website; "If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15)" Perhaps you and your Dad need to read more material from the organization? Thousands of child molesters serve in appointed positions within the organization due to the information above. Brothers and sisters like you defend their right to do so, shame on you. Luke 17:2
KL	Saturday, March 20, 2004 @ 12:50 PM
Gotta say goodbye At the request of my attorney, I am no longer able to post here. She is afraid I will say something that will ruin my case. I will miss you all, and will let you know as soon as something transpires in my case. I will continue to read your comments, and hope to meet some of you soon. Thanks Bill for all your help, and I promise to work on the steps soon. GO KINGS!!!!
M.A.N.	Saturday, March 20, 2004 @ 2:47 PM
To jah's girl I don't know your father, so I don't know if he's a liar. A liar is someone who knowingly states a falsehood. Your father may believe something to be true, but if he says it and it's not true, he's not a liar, he's just mistaken. A liar is someone who knows what he is saying is false. There is a difference. BUT THE QUESTION REMAINS:::Why are you reading BOE letters???? Aren't you the daughter of an elder?? Is he supposed to share those letters with you?? I don't think so. Your father knows we have it all wrong?? He's ignorant of the facts if that is his view. I was a servant also. Your father is no smarter than me or bill or anyone else who has suffered because of the WT. And like you were told before, you aren't supposed to be on this site, I thought. If you are jah's girl, then obey the WT and stay off the Internet and keep your head buried. If you intend to learn the truth, then keep your mouth shut and your eyes and ears open. That's why you have one mouth, but two ears. You should listed more than you talk.
	Saturday, March 20, 2004 @ 6:12 PM
A child who needs help ******URGENT ALERT***** Dear Friend: When Sheryl Coe Hardy abandoned her toddler at a shopping mall in Florida, he was put in foster care. When the child was returned to her, she and her husband abused, humiliated, tortured and killed the child. She was given 30 years in prison and got out in 9 because of "overcrowding." Last week an Illinois appeals court--disregarding the opinions of the Illinois Department of Children and Families and the Jersey County State's Attorney--ruled that another of Hardy's children -- a three year-old -- should be taken from a foster family where he lives with siblings and given to Hardy. The court's ruling is potentially lethal for two reasons. First, it puts a vulnerable child in danger again, without regard for the bonds he has formed with his family. But it also would set a disastrous precedent: if this kind of past abuse is not enough evidence that a parent is unsafe, it is difficult to imagine how the courts will protect any child. Your help is needed right away! The Illinois Department of Children and Families, the State's Attorney and the Attorney General's office have not decided whether or not to appeal this decision to the Supreme Court. Please take just two minutes and encourage them to do so. Don't let them give up on this child yet. One critical decision hangs in the balance... and this is an example of one time you CAN make a real difference. Please go to www.protect.org right now and make your voice heard. Thank you for standing up for kids! The Staff and Volunteers at PROTECT ------------------------------------------- PROTECT--The National Association to PROTECT Children 46 Haywood Street, Suite 315, Asheville, NC 28801 PHONE: 828-350-9350 FAX: 828-350-9352 WEBSITE: www.protect.org EMAIL: info@protect.org PETA has 750,000 members. NRA has 4 million members. AARP has 35 million members. Have you joined PROTECT yet?
Ilidio	Saturday, March 20, 2004 @ 7:20 PM
To: KL I am appalled by your lack of intelligence when it comes to this topic (WTBS handling child molestation cases). Shame on you as a human being by trying to defend an organization that covers up their mistakes and gives refuge to molesters who if judged by the mosaic law would have been put to death. Molestation is a very serious crime, more so when children involved. I hope you or any one in your family never have to experience it, otherwise I will guaranty you will change your mind regarding the WTBS policies. One can see from your obdurate statements that you are a dads little girl. From what I understand you get private information from him, and one must wonder if he is sharing (##@$$#@&*) something else with you ,that he is not supposed too. You are very much in denial and under his control, perhaps embarrassed to talk about it, so you just ignore it and pretend nothing peculiar is going on? Just a thought that crossed my mind. I pray to God that nothing of that nature is happening. You keep saying they (WTBS) is an organization made of imperfect humans. Just seems so odd that God, an almighty God might I add, would single out just a few uneducated idiots to run his organization. That being the case he (GOD) must be a very bad judge of character. If the message comes from God through the holy spirit, how could they be so wrong so many times? Can you recall any passages in the bible when God sent any of the prophets with the wrong message? I assume you have 2 hands and 10 fingers or 8 fingers and 2 thumbs (just in case you dont understand my English, after all it is my 3rd language). Let see if you can count how many wrong messages did the prophets received from God in the past? On another matter, you keep stating that if I find a perfect organization you will join. As far as I am concerned you can stay with WTBS, I have no problems with that. Everyone should be able to join whomever they choose too, that is why God gave us a brain, so that we can think for ourselves, not them thinking for us&&&&.. What annoys me is when people like you try to defend their rotten policies. By the way one does not need to be part of an organization in order to serve God. Havent you figured that one out yet? ***Now to the question that you keep asking me, which by the way I have answered you before. Please dont be drawn into delusional thinking that they will ever change their policies! WTBS changing their policies? Admitting that they were erroneous? It would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of an needle or a pig learning how to fly. They are more preoccupied in keeping things quiet so as not to give a bad name to the Org. What they dont realize is that they are accomplishing the opposite. Dont you worry, God is not so blind to see what is going on. Their time will come. If you believe that God I impartial and just, please believe that! I would give you a few more points, however your time is up, I made up my mind that I will not spend more than 5 minutes answering your remarks, with that have a nice day.
Jah's girl	Saturday, March 20, 2004 @ 7:36 PM
re complaints That BOE letter only confirms what I said and you said previously - if the abuse occurred MANY years ago ( other letters mention specifically 20 years) Actually you are partly right about accused ( but not proven) persons remaining elders and overseers - only if the accuser is an adult and did not complain when a child. If they did not come forward when the abuse happened then it is not viewed the same as a complaint from a distressed child. The same happens in most court actions by adults too. They are rarely successful unless the accused person has molested others - then there is more than one witness to the accused devious character and behavior. We had two such cases before the courts here recently involving prominent people in the community. Both failed because of the time lapse. Hence the new children's book and other WT publications stress the importance of children and parents communicating - even that parents should take the initiative and ask their children if they have been molested. ------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Your posts are starting to expose you as you speak with authority about things you know are not so. All accused child molesters get the benefit of two eye witnesses before ANY action is taken against them. You well know this as does anyone else in the organization that understands the way the judicial process works. The new Great Teacher book is an insult to anyone that deals with child abuse as we have clearly stated on this website, it lays the blame on the child. Yet you blindly hold this up as a benefit to children????? This is about the third time you have been asked to educate yourself about this topic instead of making blanket uneducated statements that insult abuse survivors. Further posts that ignore boe letters and the evidence presented on this website will be deleted.
PS	Saturday, March 20, 2004 @ 7:43 PM
chiropractor case Im a naturopath and I know that epileptics should not discontinue medication and although I can prescribe natural remedies and lifestyle changes to reduce seizures ( which often still occcur in people on meds!) I would never recommend discontinuing the stronger meds. The JW fiance meant well - drugs to cause side effects and some of them cannot be taken during pregnancy - eg. carbamazepine causes serious birth defects. So I can understand the problems this young man faced. But I dont agree with it. BTW - arent you being too harsh with Jah's girl? Nowhere does she say she agrees with allowing accused pedophiles being allowed to be elders.-------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-no
Jah's girl	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 1:00 AM
To M.A.N The BOE letters are posted on this site, as are numerous other WT publications dealing with child abuse. My father has never shown me any BOE letters but I have been assured the contents are no different to what is in WT and Awake articles on dealing with child abuse. eg the WT and Awake articles advise parents to report abuse to the police. -------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-inaccurate information; no article are book requires parents to report abuse to police, perhaps we should offer a $1,000,000 reward to anyone that can find one place in JW literature where reporting child abuse is required.
Ilidio	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 7:15 AM
To: kl KL, sorry but this section of the message was supposed to be to jah's girl. My appologies to you. I am appalled by your lack of intelligence when it comes to this topic (WTBS handling child molestation cases). Shame on you as a human being by trying to defend an organization that covers up their mistakes and gives refuge to molesters who if judged by the mosaic law would have been put to death. Molestation is a very serious crime, more so when children involved. I hope you or any one in your family never have to experience it, otherwise I will guaranty you will change your mind regarding the WTBS policies. One can see from your obdurate statements that you are a dads little girl. From what I understand you get private information from him, and one must wonder if he is sharing (##@$$#@&*) something else with you ,that he is not supposed too. You are very much in denial and under his control, perhaps embarrassed to talk about it, so you just ignore it and pretend nothing peculiar is going on? Just a thought that crossed my mind. I pray to God that nothing of that nature is happening
M.A.N.	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 8:26 AM
to Jah's girl and to llidio First, llidio, I think you made many intelligent comments in your post. KL obviously has a problem and is an ignorant WT robot. And to Jah's girl, you are even more idiotic. You still have not explained why you are reading letters to elders. Are you an elder, YES OR NO???? And people have been tried in court and convicted years after an adult came forward and claimed to have been molested as a child. Just because you know of two cases where that didn't happen doesn't make it policy. I'm a Psychology major, my IQ is 150, and my child was molested. The therapists are now trying to make sure that someone doesn't commit suicide over this, and believe me, someone is planning to. I know. I lost my wife and daughter for life because I exposed those bastards and my wife stayed loyal to the WT. I may have loved her, but she is brain-washed. So are you. bill is right. Find and use what little brain you have or shut the hell up. Stupid people annoy me.
MA	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 9:26 AM
The good ship? Leave the shore on high tide&With Kings Law by its side& Sailed the good ship Watch Tower&With the captain and its crew&And the cabin boy young Tommy Drew&Their mission to sail round the world&To take their things to every port& Along the trip poor Tommy Drew&Complained to Captain of being raped&By dirty old John the ships first mate&Now the Captain had a dilemma&Cabin boys where often raped&None had complained until that date&His mission was to sail the world&To go to every port of call&Dirty John would help him reach that goal&Curse that bloody Tommy Drew&Curse him if he should tell the crew&So he then devised a cunning plan& He told a story to every man&He reminded them that when at sea&The Captains law is all they need&He belittled Tommy in front of them all&So Tommy tripped and then he fell&This was the chance for the Captain to strike&He formed a court in the middle of the night&He hauled poor Tommy Drew&Right up in front of all the crew&With no explanation to file and rank&He made poor Tommy walk the plank&Poor Tommy dropped into the sea&With no skills to weather thee&He begged for God to forgive his sin&Just before he was done in&A ship, a sail he saw on the horizon&The good ship SL with Captain Bill Bowen&He helped him up from the sea&He told him that he was only a fellow worker too&That his mission was to take his things to every port&But whatever port he followed the Watch Tower&Girls and boys where being raped just like you&In fact most of his ship where made of this loyal crew& Such a noise he said I could not ignore&The victims silence was beginning to roar&Scurvy and rough but loyal crew&Bill Bowen will admit this is true&Even so Watch Tower theyre coming for you.
KL	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 11:52 AM
Thanks, Ilidio for clarifying that for me. I was kinda wondering what happened between us! :) As for you, M.A.N., nice try. I am no more an idiotic WT robot than you are an intelligent one. And seein' how your comment about me was way off base, I'd say that means you are pretty stupid. Robot, huh? If that's honestly how you feel about someone who is suing the WTBS and speaking out in public about his abuse, then you are mocking not only my efforts but everyone else who stands up for victim's rights. Way to go, jerk!
Dale B	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 12:58 PM
thanks Bill There is no way to say thank you enough for what you are doing for children who have been victims of sex abuse among the JW's. Your added marches, summits and organized meetings only adds to the wonderful things you are doing to help. Keep up the good work! You have shown victims and their families that there really is a light at the end of the tunnel. Dale
Jacob	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 3:38 PM
abuse to be reported to police even if abuser is a spouse From the oct 8 1993 Awake: What, though, when the abuser is one's own beloved mate? Sad to say, many women fail to take decisive action. To be sure, it is never easy to face the ugly reality of a mate who is a child abuser. Emotional ties, and even financial dependency, can be overwhelmingly strong. The wronged wife may also realize that taking action could cost her husband his family, his job, his reputation. The hard truth is, though, that he may just be reaping what he has sown. (Galatians 6:7) Innocent children, on the other hand, stand to lose much more if they are not believed and protected. Their whole future is at stake. They do not have the resources that adults have. Trauma can scar and shape them adversely for life. They are the ones who need and deserve tender treatment.Compare Genesis 33:13, 14. Parents must therefore make every reasonable effort to protect their children! Many responsible parents choose to seek out professional help for an abused child. Just as you would with a medical doctor, make sure that any such professional will respect your religious views. Help your child rebuild his or her shattered self-esteem through a steady outpouring of parental love. Also from Aussie congregation letter: We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities where required by Law to do so, even where there is only one witness. (Romans 13:1) In any case, the elders know that if the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.---- Galatians 6:5. THESE ARE BOTH PUBLISHED ON THIS WEBSITE. ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Our $1,000,000 suggested reward is still intact; not one place do we see parents required to report abusers to the police and the Aussie letter caused such an uproar among elders due to the absolute lie it told that the Aussie branch had to follow up with a second letter to the BOE saying that reporting to authorities was basically calling them (wt)when abuse occurred. Now why did you forget that letter???? Here is the link for you to review, we are sure you just couldn't find it since it was right under the letter you posted... http://www.silentlambs.org/education/aussieBOElette.cfm
NN	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 5:36 PM
Stop defending a lost case I think all you who are trying to defend the WTBTS should consider that this abuse thing is only a symptom of a greater evil, that this group has in common with every other fundamentalistic group, no matter what religion they belong to. And it is a total disregard for human values. If you listen carefully of what the WTBTS is saying about "outsiders" you will find that they are not considered as humans, for example they have no moral, no feelings, are unable to show or feel compassion etc. And this is also how they judge insiders who, for some reason - certainly not scriptual reasons - are considered to be unwanted or unneccessary or just despised because they need someone to despise to ease the frustration in the group. Among the unwanted you will of course find the abuse victims, the battered wifes and children, ostracised ones like myself, but certainly not the abusers, the drunkards, the narcisistic elders etc. What I'm saying is that this group is a destructive group. I know because I was one of the ostracised ones, probably because I never stopped thinking (thinking is a very dangerous activity in such a group, only the leaders have the right to think), or perhaps because of some slander. However, I survived, but it was close. It's like either you make or breake. I've learnt a lot, among other thing to value people for what they are - not what they are trying to look like. And that no one has copyright on Jehova God. And I have really learnt that the Barbie smiles that seeme to have got stuck on the Witnesses faces, are a mask that hides depressions, agressions, fear and frustration etc, it is not the smile produced by the happines associated to the spritual fruits or even the smile of a content person. My only advice is: leave as soon as you can, but do it on your own terms. The WTBTS has no right to anything it is just a sordid fundamentalistic sect that like every other fundamentalistic sect are empowering men to use and abuse women and children, and of course other men.
ron w	Sunday, March 21, 2004 @ 6:28 PM
what a find. I'am so glad to find such sight.
PS	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 12:50 AM
$1,000,000 please We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities where required by Law to do so, even where there is only one witness. (Romans 13:1) In any case, the elders know that if the victim wishes to make a report, it is his or her absolute right to do so.--- -Galatians 6:5. From congregation letter sent to all congregations worldwide in 2002. The authorities spoken of in Romans 13 ( read to vs 6) are clearly legal and secular authorities ( "kings, "rulers") - ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-It seems few can read the original suggested offer, "Find one place where all members are encouraged and required to report child abuse allegations to police." That is a million dollar statement that is unfindable in any JW directives. Answer the challenge instead of pitiful half statements riddled with legalize and half truths.
lloyd	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 3:16 AM
11 years a member 11 years of trying made 1 mistake,the axe fell,12 years of trying to forgive myself ,let alone the wts
NN	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 4:20 AM
To Jacob: Grow Up! Well if everything that was written in declarations was adhered to I assure it would be paradise on earth. As it is declarations like the text you're refering to are not even worth the paper they are written on. They are just a way of covering up the real situation. The WTBTS is a fundamental sect that empower the men to do as they like, as long as they do not get in conflict with more powerful males. They have a very special way of handling complaining women, children etc, it is like this: The elder listens and says that he understands, and will take care of it, and that there is no reason to talk about this to others. And then what happens? Nothing, absolutely nothing. If the complainer insists she will be told not to spread slander and eventually she or he will be expelled because of slander or unsubmissiveness. And this is the way the elders do in everything from the most unimportant cases to abuse cases - their only aim is to hush everything down. But if they can use the information in their own power struggles - then it is of course quite a different story.
geevee	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 6:15 AM
huh Well, we had our meeting yesterday. The speaker giving the talk 96 "False Religions End is Near" highlighted 10 things that set us apart from the worlds religions. Number 9 was how terrible the catholic church is because it moves the pedophile priests around and is now paying huge amounts of compensation to their victims. I felt like telling him to get educated. Most don't want to see it. He had no right to criticize. Our track record is also appalling.
M.A.N.	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 7:12 AM
to KL I'm sorry for the error. I chose the wrong heading that is stored on my PC, I wasn't feeling well and slipped up. I apologize. My comments were for jah's girl only and I clicked on you as well. The heading is put in automatically. I thought I had sent a post in the past commending you, if not, and you are suing the WT, thank you. Again, I'm sorry.
Julie W	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 7:28 AM
George Pilcher I dont know where to start...All I know is I want this man exposed. Yes he is a Witness, no surprise there, they know what kind of man he is as well....how do they know, because I stood outside their pathetic church and handed them all leaflets explaining what he had done to me from the age 0f 18 months, well thats as far back as I can remember, with the aid of photographs. The elders said to me, as long as he Confesses his sins, he will be freely welcomed back into the group??? Come to Kingdom Hall people, Bring your children, it`s ok dont worry, we know who all our Child Molesters are here!!! Better the devil you know ay!!!! I think no!!!! I need help with this somebody....let me get Justice E.mail me Juliedenn@aol.com
Ilidio	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 7:53 PM
You go Geevee Ever wonder if the elder giving the talk (False Religions End is Near) was actually talking about the end of the Jehovahs Witnesses Religion? You deserve a medal for bringing out that excellent point
AK	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 9:34 PM
As I have stated before, no one in my family or close friends were ever personally abused during my time in the 'truth'. But I can relate an interesting experience that I was involved with. I had served as a MS and as a regular pioneer for many years. A sister I had pioneered with came to me and confided that her husband was mentally, verbally, and at times physically abusing her. She had approached the elders with the problem and had been told that there was nothing they could, or should I say would do. So she looked to me for a shoulder to cry on at times as she struggled through the ordeal. My wife was fully aware of the situation, and supported me in my support of this kind hearted sister. Our 'sessions' were frequent and always above board, and went on for four or five months till she regretably returned to her husband. Usually my wife was there also, and if not then 'Karla' and I would talk on the porch in plain view of the neighbors. One day I was actually accused of 'fornication or actions that could lead to that' even though there had not ever been any physical contact at all between us. The elders knew that, and knew that my wife was aware of the matter and usually involved in the discussions. It was soon clear that the problem was jealousy. These men resented that anyone would have the 'kohunes' to do the job that they wanted to be glorified for doing. I was actually only being a supportive friend, and they were angry that someone would dare! How sad that must make the God of Love, Jehovah. 'Karla' was close to suicide over her ordeal, and the elders were more worried that perhaps a bit of their authority would be eroded than her mental and emotional survival. How terrible that our little childen have to deal with these adult issues, and worse, with no one to talk to. The Catholic Church is often condemned by the WTBTS for it's abuse issues, but the Catholics have an upside that we will never see in the organization - many of the 'good' priests (and I am sure that the morally good ones outnumber the molesters manifold) have been trained in mental health and have credentials as counselors - they can actually help those needing encouragement. What is needed is an end to the abuse and the coverup, but in the meantime many shattered young lives may be restored and gain closure due to efforts like that of SL! Thank you SL for giving JW children a venue!
PS	Monday, March 22, 2004 @ 10:06 PM
Oct 8 1993 Awake! As previously quoted by a user, the above mentioned WT publication advises a mother ( women cant be elders) to take "decisive action" in the event that it is her spouse who is the abuser, even if such action would lead to loss of employment, reputation, financial loss. Simply reporting abuse to the elders would not lead to unemployment so the "decisive action" referred to MUST be to report the abuse to the police. ------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Wrong again, if the brother worked for another brother and was DF he would lose employment as mandated by the organization, lose reputation, and financial loss. to advisee to take "decisive actions" is an unclear statement taht coudl easily be clarified by one simple statement, "CALL THE POLICE" funny why that statement is absent from all references to child abuse to this day. Has anyone thought to ask why? Has anyone thought? Meanwhile the children are hurt.
KL	Tuesday, March 23, 2004 @ 1:35 AM
I've got good news: No, I didn't save money by switching to Geico, but I did meet with my attorney today and all is well so far. The WTBS and other defendants were served with my complaint on March 11, and I expect to feel the heat any day now. I finally informed my parents tonite that I am doing this, and to my surprise they are behind me 100%. It would appear that our efforts are starting to pay off, but the fight has just begun. While I do not hope for the demise of the whole WTBS, I cannot wait for the time when those within it who need to go are finally cast out and we can feel safe again. I will keep you updated as things progress.
KL	Tuesday, March 23, 2004 @ 1:37 AM
23,720 Bill, any idea how big this number is now? I am sure it has increased, no? ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply- after two years of major news stories it would appear it could easily be over 30,000.
MKRW	Tuesday, March 23, 2004 @ 6:27 AM
nb. I would like to remind everyone that not all abuse perpetrated on young children (particularly those in the destructive cult of the WTBTS)is necessarily sexual or physical. In my personal opinion, (and it is a valid opinion, having been born into the cult and left it 27 years ago when I was 20) equally poisonous, abusive and destructive is the psychological effect that the brainwashing and segregation, taught by this society has on its own children. Let's not forget the effect that this type of abuse has. I am still struggling with my feelings of anger that this type of abuse left me with.
Undaunted Danny	Tuesday, March 23, 2004 @ 6:57 AM
Watchtower's Lawyers DROP A DIME,some useful facts:::: Lead lawyer for the WTS is; Philip Brumley Home address: 131 Brimstone Rd Patterson, NY 12563-2106 (845) 278 - 8138------- Brumley at "Brimstone",Hmmmm, hell burns hot for pedophiles and pedophile protectors.[Rev 21:8] -------- Registration Number New york registry: 2224871 PHILIP BRUMLEY WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK INC. 25 COLUMBIA HTS BROOKLYN NY 11201 (718) 560-5400 ------------------ Office; - ---- Philip Brumley born 1956, Firm: Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, Inc.---- Address: 100 Watchtower Dr Patterson, NY 12563-9204 --- Phone: (845) 306-1000 --- Fax: (845) 306-0709 --- Associates: Legal Department Personnel, Patterson, NY (Incomplete) Philip Brumley:( Coordinator ) Gregory Olds, Don Ridley, Carolyn Wah, Charles Creger, Joseph Jandrokovic,
Debbie	Tuesday, March 23, 2004 @ 2:22 PM
allowing verbal attacks By allowing verbal attacks on JW users such as Jah's girl and Jacob you are like any errant elders who have turned a blind eye to child abuse and have made this site a JW bashing site. From what I can see too you are blaming the whole organization for the actions of a few individual elders. I understand from what Ive read here of the court cases that the WTS is prepared to settle out of court with genuine victims of elder's negligence anyway.-------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-In the famous words of Forrest Gump, "stupid is as stupid does." 1. The Gvoerning Body has turned a blind eye to child abuse since they recieved a detailed report on the extent of the problem in 1992. 2. The Wt legal dept will spend one million dollars to see that abuse survivors never see one penny to compensate them for elder negligence. They offer victims NOTHING to help them while stabbing them in the back in every devious way possible. Shame on you for spreading misinformation that insults abuse survivors. Now if you consider this a verbal attack view it as well diserved...
MA	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 7:46 AM
Waiting on Jehovah Is really a belief in fate. While it is true JWs teach against the evils of fate, in fact JWs do teach a form of fate, the philosophy of determinism which does not necessarily require a deity or supernatural support. It says that everything works by cause and effect, and everything is determined by prior causes. So there is no choice and the future is predetermined. In the Insight Book on page 853 it states Similarly, if, in certain respects, God chooses to exercise his infinite ability of foreknowledge in a selective way and to the degree that pleases him, then assuredly no human or angel can rightly say: What are you doing? (Job 9:12; Isa 45:9; Da 4:35) It is therefore not a question of ability, what God can foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for with God all things are possible. (Mt 19:26) The question is what God sees fit to foresee, foreknow, and foreordain, for everything that he delighted to do he has done.Ps 115:3. The reasoning Book on page 141 states; Illustration: The owner of a radio can listen to the world news. But the fact that he can listen to a certain station does not mean that he does. He must first turn on the radio and then select the station. Likewise, Jehovah has the ability to foreknow events, but the Bible shows that he makes selective and discretionary use of that ability, with due regard for the free will with which he has endowed his human creation. Compare Genesis 22:12; 18:20, 21. By stating that Jehovah has the ability to foresee your eternal future means that your eternal future is already mapped out unless he uses his infinite ability of foreordination (he makes things happen) to change things. So according to the WTBS how does this happen? By divine providence as brought out in the Watchtower 81 12/15 quoting from a 1919 WT it says They are glad correspondingly to co-operate as fellow-servants with the Societys work, believing that thereby they are following the leadings of the Divine Providence, as well as the instructions of the Divine Word. So does Jehovah have the ability of infinite foresight and are JWs fates changed as brought out by dive providence from the society. What does that have to do with child abuse?
MA	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 7:52 AM
Waiting on Jehovah To answer the first question does the context of Mt 19:26 suggest that Jesus was discussing the fundamental design of the universe or was he discussing Jehovahs ability to save people compared to mans inability? To get a more balanced understanding of this scripture in Mathew we could look at a similar account in Luke 18 The things impossible with men are possible with God. Jehovah eternally judges people (good or bad) on what is in a persons heart according to their actions. If Jehovah does not have the ability of infinite foreknowledge, could that be consistent with I John 3:19:20 which states, By this we shall know that we originate with the truth, and we shall assure our hearts before him 20 as regards whatever our hearts may condemn us in, because God is greater than our hearts and knows all things.? Yes, because to know all things is to know everything there is to know. If every humans future was able to be known then according to this scripture Jehovah would know it. There is nowhere in the bible to suggest that he tunes into the six oclock news to get updates or has a giant forecasting super computer that he logs into to get predictions on the future. There is also no reason to believe he segregates his mind and puts all the bits of information there that is not convenient to know. Gen 22:12 which reads, for now I do know that you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son would be meaningless if that knowledge existed somewhere in Jehovahs mind. Consider Zech 4:10 to understand the extent of Jehovah searching things out, These seven are the eyes of Jehovah. They are roving about in all the earth. (Prov 15:3, Jere 16:17, 23:24-25, Heb 4:13). Does Jehovah not having the ability of infinite foresight suggest that he is not all powerful? Wouldnt that mean that Jehovah has power over all that he has created? Surely we would not imagine that Jehovah somehow has created a world where he has implanted some kind of back door just in case things go wrong. Why wouldnt Jehovah have the power to make a world where people have true free choice (Gen 2 16, 17)? To illustrate; A team of competent computer programmers are commissioned to spend 2 years to build a secure system. At the end of this period all the passwords are changed so they dont have system access. Would it be reasonable (especially in light of security flaws highlighted in the news of the worlds major computer systems) to believe they would be able to break into that system again? The reason they could more than likely break in is because no human can make a perfect system. Mankinds modern quest to create intelligent machines (neural networks, robots, artificial intelligence) has proved to be an impossible challenge. So while it is difficult or even impossible for man to create intelligent life with a self defining destiny the scripture in Luke 18:27 (He said: The things impossible with men are possible with God.) could apply. Let us consider also how unjust, stupid, unloving and meaningless the world would be if Jehovah had created us completely predictable (of course Jehovah can predict things but Am 3:7, 8 indicates that Jehovah more makes prophecy happen) It would be a bit like Robinson Crusoe playing hide the thimble (why not just make perfect world if we have no real free choice)!!! The bible simply states in Ecclesiastes 9:11 "time and unforeseen occurrence befall them all". To answer the second question the only time the expression divine providence was used in the bible was with the adoption of the name Christian in Acts 11:26.
MA	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 7:53 AM
Waiting on Jehovah So what does this have to do with child abuse? If people believe that, their lives are determined except by divine providence as through, an organization they will not be impelled to protect themselves or others unless instructed to by that organization. Rather than empower themselves (by using the police, counseling, warning others etc) they will in fact to coin a worldly phrase accept their fate or to use the JW term wait on Jehovah. Please forgive my personal views on this matter; I would encourage you to look this up yourself. I personally believe the views I have expressed are pertinent from my dealings with the issue of child abuse. Maybe it would explain the very cavalier attitude shown by many JWs towards victims.
Ilidio	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 8:28 AM
To: Debbie Debbie my dear, Of course we have to blame the organization for the actions of the individual elders. Havent you notice that they are acting upon the information from the mother ship? Which brings to mind the star trek, You know where the organization fits in? The Borg. Yes, we can compare them to the Borg. You have no thoughts of your own; you are a collective that assimilates, (resistance if futile, you will be assimilated). One thing you did not expect. We are the star trek and you can not assimilate us. You will continue to assimilate the weaker ones, no doubt about it, but not us. We are on the star trek, we are invincible.
NN	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 8:58 AM
To Debbie, you must realise facts The argument Debbie and others are constantly repeating is a very old apologetic tactic, to try to awert critisism on the leader/s by putting the blame on persons lower down in the hierarchy. But neither they or any one else can deny that this organization acts in a very agressiv way towards so called wistle blowers. By expelling wistle blowers - a kind of symbolical death penalty - the effectively stop them from communicating with others. By doing so the organisation take their stand with the abusers - against the abused.
NN	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 1:47 PM
a possible explanation Came across this quote in a novel (written before 9/11): "It seemed there was always close correlation between true believers and high body counts." The explanation to this horrific correlation is that it is all about power. To abuse/kill or any related activity is an ultimate way of manifesting ones personal power. The un/official support given to abusers/killers or suchlike persons is a manifestation of power relations. This is of course also the reason to why there is abuse in the WTBTS organisation, it is a way to strenghten and maintain the power relations in this group, and perhaps especialy in the "inner circle" consisting of influential elders (and of women who know how to play the power game in a patriarchal society). And of course all this is very much against the teachings of Christ.
Kristi	Wednesday, March 24, 2004 @ 7:25 PM
I am also a victim of abuse by my step-father(Ralph Heroux) who was a ministrial servant. The abuse was covered up for 25 years until Massachusetts passed a law stating that if clergy knew of any victims of child abuse they had to report it to the District Attorney. My biological mother went to the Elders in the congregation, who told her they would handle it themselves. When I was notified by the D.A. office that my name was given to them I called the congregation where Ralph is a member and asked them what they were doing to protect others against this man? I was told "nothing, we did our job we reported him to the D.A. office."I knew I had to prosecute and protect other children. When I told a few relatives about the abuse my cousin and step-sister said they too were abused by this man. Ralph spent $50,000 for a retainer fee for a Lawyer. He then decicded he did not want to go to trial so he pleaded guilty. He received 1 year in prison followed by 2 years home confinement on an electronic bracelet, 3 years probation and lifetime parole. Ralph also lives in RI but since the crimes happened in MA he had to apply to move back to RI when he got out of prison. He was denied access to RI he can never move to the state, (where he owns a house). I also went to court and got a re-straining order against my biological mother who is still a JW and the 3 of us got one against Ralph. We have hired an Attorney who has already filed a lawsuit against and attached Ralphs property so he can't sell it until we settle with the JW. p.s. juliedenn@aol.com I hope this gives you some ideas. let me know if there is anything else can do to help you.
Zorena K	Thursday, March 25, 2004 @ 5:07 AM
Opening our hearts to God and Each Other Thank you all for gathering and supporting a RIGHT CAUSE. One that cannot be put off, one that cannot go unspoken. May YAHWEH continue to Bless you All- with His Immediate and Permanent Comfort, His Boundless Compassion, His Unbeattable Protection and ALL you NEED. NOW. :D AMEN! zkd
M W	Saturday, March 27, 2004 @ 8:41 AM
Unity at what cost? The Watchtower condones abuse to anyone who challenges them or disagree's with them. Interesting article in Toronto's Globe and Mail on the religions shunning policy. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/ L AC/20040325/FACTS25/TPComment/Features
AK	Tuesday, March 30, 2004 @ 11:16 AM
From the Elder's Handbook I quote directly from the elder's handbook "Pay attention". Anyone who has seen the pain and suffering incurred among Jehovah's witnesses abuse victims knows that local elders have not read or do not care about the directives within his own guidebook. Obviously the Society itself does not follow it's own counsel here. Here is the quote and location. [Governing Body member that is charged with reading all this apostate propoganda - here is some of your own to read.] Victims of sexual abuse need to be treated with extreme thoughtfulness and kindness. Elders should always do what they reasonably can to protect children from further abuse; follow the Society's directives on such matters. (g85 1/22 p. 8) Pay Attention...to All the Flock - Unit 5(a)Page 93 Par. 11
leahbatrena	Tuesday, March 30, 2004 @ 3:31 PM
happy to be free I was a Jw for 25 years and have never been happier to leave such an organization in my life. write more later.
T.J.B.	Tuesday, March 30, 2004 @ 5:58 PM
Glad To See Silentlambs Back Glad to see your website back up, that the caucas got great coverage in the papers and many other good things have happened. Bill, Raven told you the truth.
MA	Wednesday, March 31, 2004 @ 7:29 AM
Another JW nightmare I just got off the phone from a mate, who had been in touch with a Dfed JW (he knew her from when they where both JW's) that had been abused as by her JW father (I am not sure but I believe he may be still a JW). She and her 2 children had been living with an abusive man (no support group because she was Dfed). They broke up about a month ago and he came back a week later and beat her up. My friend supported her with calling the cops and the boyfriend was arrested (this was not the first time). One week ago they all vanished without trace. My friend popped in to see them last night and the place is in exactly the same state as when he was around there a week ago (the dog with no water etc). He called the cops and they are treating it as extremely suspicious. The cops where surprised that she had no one else but my mate and one other couple who lived out of town that knew her. The police will be looking into their bank accounts this evening to hopefully find out where they are. I don't know all the details of this case but my friend truly fears the outcome. The question you have to ask is; what is a woman with 2 children supposedly brought up in a 'Christian' household and having been molested as a child left to rot by herself? I'm sure any JW reading this will be thinking yes but this happened 'after' she was Dfed. My simple answer is you f@#$%^&* b!@#@$%#.
Ilidio	Wednesday, March 31, 2004 @ 10:36 AM
Silent treatment Went to a restaurant this past Friday with my wife and an older couple that by the way is my ex boss and guess who was there? My elder friend Clarence, went to him and said "Hello Clarence" the guy was so embarrassed that he didn't even move. Call me a bad boy if you must but I have a kick out of it. I had this guy in my house for dinner, my wife and I babysitted his children many times. I must confessed I was sorry for him. If he had enough space he would have crawled into his glass of wine. Before I left I said to him. Its amazing that after wasting so much time trying to be a Christian you haven't figured out that religion is based on 2 things, LOVE and FORGIVNESS With that I left. He was so embarrassed that he soon picked up his check and left without finishing his meal. I had made the statement loud enough so that everyone could hear and believe me I live in a small Island 56000 people where everyone knows everyone else. I am a bad boy, what can I say.
Brother John	Wednesday, March 31, 2004 @ 2:00 PM
My story I'm a survivor of abuse at the hands of a former elder and 1 of his sons when I was 12-14. My congregation handled the situations beautifully. Although there were no witnesses, when my parents and I told the elder body was had happened, we were encouraged to press charges and others came forward to support us. The elder was deleted, disfellowshipped, and is currently awaiting trial. His son was never baptized and is also charged but my plea bargain to avoid serving time. I just wanted others to know that there are some bodies of elders who do the right thing and not victimize the survivors of abuse again. ----- ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------silentlambs reply-Great to hear our message is getting through and elders are handling abuse properly. Please share the name of this convicted child molester so we can protect the rest of the brothers and sisters.
NN	Thursday, April 1, 2004 @ 5:34 AM
To First of course there are courageous and good people in the WT organization, but the fact that a person, like this elder is df is not the end of the story these people tend to be reinstated fairly soon again. But if your story is true, (to me you sound a bit to old to fit into your own "story", since at the time when it happened you were 12-14, and the elder is still awaiting jail, could you please explain) it doesn't change anything since what is happening in the congregations is a question of who is in charge; If the abuser is a friend of the "rulers" no way he/she is going to be df, but if the ruling elders want to get rid of the abuser of course he/she will be df. The most interesting scenario is if all this happens during a power struggle - I know because I've seen it happen - then it all becomes a sheere parody of christian religion.
Honey	Thursday, April 1, 2004 @ 3:29 PM
claims by teenagers Last year a friend of mine was accused by a 14 year old foster child of exposing her breasts and private parts in an attempt to seduce her. This 14yo was challenged by my friend to go to the police with her claims, but she did not. Instead, after she moved out, kept making abusive phone calls and even came to my friend's home threatening her. She was drunk and on drugs. My friend had to call the police and they advised her to take out a restraining order. Do you think that such claims by older kids can be believed?-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-in a word YES-the situation you describe is out of the ordinary and should be dealt with accordingly as it was.
Jacob	Thursday, April 1, 2004 @ 3:47 PM
to NN Re Bro John's case. He is probably 15 - the courts are often so busy that it can take more than a year for a suspect to face trial. He would be in custody awaiting trial.
NN	Friday, April 2, 2004 @ 6:21 AM
to Jacob and John Well, to me John's posting felt like coming from an adult, not a teenager....but of course I can be mistaken. I hope John could expand a bit more on his story.
bro john	Friday, April 2, 2004 @ 9:26 AM
for nn I'm 17 now. It took a lot of time before I came forward because I was sure no one would believe it. Really it was not even much of my choice to come forward because someone I confided in betrayed me. Plus, I am dealing with other stuff and it was all just too much at one time. The last few years have been pretty much awful for me and my family. And I still have to be careful what I say because I could further mess up everything.------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-pleae email us at info@silentlambs.org we might be able to help.
MDB	Saturday, April 3, 2004 @ 11:33 AM
also an x-JW I have just come across this web site and throw out my condolences to all those abused through this organization. I was born into this religion and was d-fd when I was around 17 by a bunch of elders that attempted to intimidate and scare the life out me, not to mention inform me that my unborn child would die if I didn't begin following their rules. Needless to say I did not heed their warnings and my child is now 20 and beautiful! I find that being raised this way has left emotional scars that will NEVER heal. Our family has been torn apart by this religion. Some of my family who remain in this religion (if you can call it that)will not speak to me, or even acknowledge me. This is real Christian behavior, right? My own mother was bothered by me hugging her. If treating your own family members in this horrible manner is following the Bible, then I am the Easter bunny. My only wish is that others in my situation can find peace and solace in a new life free from this religious conflict and that God will rescue them and enter their hearts with the true meaning of the word 'faith' We are all God's children and he hears our prayers too even if the JW's have deserted us. They will have to answer to him too.
AK	Saturday, April 3, 2004 @ 3:02 PM
Why can't they make good rules to deal with abuse? I have seen the WT PR department repeatedly state that it is impossible to deal with the matter of abuse as suggested by the SL organization and others. Their reason is that the Bible must be adhered to in the matter of discipline. WHAT? I have just read parts of the Elder's Manual entitled "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to the Flock". This manual is designed to deal with all sorts of discipline issues by the body of elders and committees. It is 150 pages of mostly man-made rules (35000 words). I have seen hundreds of rules in it's pages that are just arbitrary and in some cases entirely unscripural in nature. Yet, the GB insists that it's elders use this guide to direct the flock. They have NO PROBLEM making up rules where it suits their interests in doing so. Why cannot the simple rules that SL suggests to deal with child-rapist not be adopted? In a word, arrogance! They did not come up with the idea, announce that it was revealed as 'new light' by the Holy Spirit, produce talks, articles, and publications to be released and drooled over by the JW public! The simple fact is that - like the son's of Eli, they feel cloaked in God's spirit, and will not listen to good advise until many like myself have just said "enough of you fools in ignorance of God". Jehovah had to reject an entire nation due to the things that 'men of God' were doing in and around his Holy Temple. Perhaps he never selected IBSA and later Jehovah's witnesses at all - that remains to be revealed. But if He did, He can also reject them for uncleaness as he did the Israelite Nation. "LET HIM THAT THINKS HE IS STANDING, BEWARE THAT HE DOES NOT FALL". 1 Corinthians 10:12. Now there's a scriptural rule that will hold up!!
JAS	Saturday, April 3, 2004 @ 4:37 PM
Catholic prays for you As a Catholic, I can understand what the victims of abuse have suffered from their church. Please accept the prayers of a Catholic for all those abused in the name of God. You are very couragous to come forth. God Bless.
Honey	Saturday, April 3, 2004 @ 11:44 PM
Michael Jackson In a recent TV interview Michael jackson's mother who is a practising Jehovah's witness stated clearly that NONE of her children have accepted the faith she brought them up with. This would mean that none of them were ever baptised. Her husband also in the same TV program celebrated a birthday party at Michael's ranch. When it comes to employment - my husband works for a man who was df many years ago. As that WT article states, it is appropriate to discuss business matters with an employer but not spiritual matters or socializing outside of work. If this lawyer is a JW as you claim then he has every right to take on anyone as a client. he does not have to either socialise or fellowship with his client but discuss only business matters, in this instance, the case against Michael who by the way should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Families are a different ball park than with just anyone being df.. A recent KM pointed out that just as a wife or husband stays with a df spouse, caring for aged parents ( honor your father and mother) overrides any question of cutting off parents completely. If they are infirm you may even have to take them in and care for them on a daily basis. Their being df does not change that COMMANDMENT. ----------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Jackson family has at least three members that are baptized JW's. Firpo is not a lawyer but is of the anointed. Read your 2002 August KM no you are not allowed to talk to df relatives unless it is an emergency as quoted in the article. Live by your teachings and quite fabricating loopholes to excuse violation of doctrine.
Traci H	Sunday, April 4, 2004 @ 11:11 AM
It Happened To Me!!!! I read your artical printed in the Tuscalosa News and I had to respond.This also happened to me and I was told by the "PERVERT" and his wife, along with the Elders that it was being taken care of and I was not even aloud to tell my Mother or the "PERVERT and his wife would "hurt me & my family"! I was about 8 or 9 yrs old when this happened. When I was about 25yrs old I told my Mother and she showed no expression or said anything else about it.On the other hand, my Father is not A JW and if he found out I know what he would do .
A.T.	Sunday, April 4, 2004 @ 1:09 PM
I feel so sorry for them and they need to be in jail
js	Sunday, April 4, 2004 @ 1:59 PM
happier now I am a former Jehovah's witness, now a Southern Baptist. Much happier now. Glad to see this website (and "organization") exists. God bless!
Susan S	Sunday, April 4, 2004 @ 5:22 PM
Abuse It is bad enough to be violated by someone you love and trust, But even worse when you turn to the elders who are suppose to be spiritual guides and they also violate you by covering over what has taken place to protect the one who has violated you.It's like going to the Police for protection from the person that just raped you and being raped by them and then sent on your way ordered not to mention this to anyone.I was told by the Elders to say nothing of the abuse that had taken place, instead guilt was laid upon me by saying that my revealing the truth would bring reproach against Jehovah God.What about the victimizer? Didn't he bring reproach against God? How warped . The worst part is I hung onto that warped counsel for 31 years, at great cost to a precious child. I applaud the Brother who was courages enough to do the right thing and start this website. I will pray for all the victims and those who are seeking to support them by setting matters straight. I am finally free, Yet I struggle as I watch the devastating effect that my children still carry. I am grateful because I will not be silenced anymore .
www.internetnewsdaily.com	Monday, April 5, 2004 @ 1:21 AM
your site is informative decent site
NN	Monday, April 5, 2004 @ 6:28 AM
To John Thanks, now I understand, and you are very courageous!!! I have one advice to you: Get out, but get out on your own terms and in your own time. It is of no use or good for you - or anyone - to stay on in this corrupt sect. And if "they", i.e. the elders, have realised that you are a "problem" to them they will not stop harrassing you - to get rid of you. They have very subtle ways of shunning/isolating people, and no one even dares to not do as they are told when told - secretly - to stop having any social contact with "a problematic person". I know, cause this was what happened to me. For years I was exposed to this "shunning" without even understanding it, I just thought that I was an unpleasant person. It was pretty horrible and it almost drove me to suicide. Then I realised I had to do something about it, so I gradually started to build a life outside the organisation. It took me some years, but as it turned out it was not a moment to soon cause then this "Anders" affair happened (in Sweden) and since I happen to have a conscience the so called "advertisement" made it totaly impossible to continue support this group. So I left.
Iris	Monday, April 5, 2004 @ 9:04 PM
Dateline Some months ago I talked with a lady who was a survivor of sex abuse in the Seventh-Day Adventists. She remarked how she and her friends responded after viewing the Dateline program on sex abuse within Jehovh's Witnesses.It was, "Oh my God, they're just like us."
the mole	Monday, April 5, 2004 @ 10:03 PM
my memorial i was invited to attend but is it really the truth they tell us. to attend? is it condoning and giving in what i seen and know for fact to show up. i have been scorned and ridiculed for my simple questions of things that are being covered up. my sister invited me to her house and to her memorial but she was the first one to criticize me when i raised questions of nbc and dateline of the things of pediphilia and rape of children. so many recent talks of hating those looking for evil the org has caused many to shrink back in their ignorance that to warn the stiff neck people may be of little. maybe this why God had the jews wander the desert for so long, to weed out the true heretics of gods word. i will not attend and my children wont either. to attend would mean all that i fought for was in vain. i will read to my children word for word without the pollution of men modern thoughts of the bible. the bible was simple reading for simple laymen and so how much more lay than me.....the mole....
C. Stire	Tuesday, April 6, 2004 @ 10:46 AM
Congratulations! Congratulations; SILENT LAMBS staff and survivors on the success of your recent summit in Nashville. May God continue using you to support survivors of JW-sexual abuse! You will bring the current policy of Watchtower to it's knees! C. Stire Life After Watchtower Ministries Canada
NN	Tuesday, April 6, 2004 @ 1:46 PM
To The Mole Dear Mole, you are so very right, why attend the Memorial with people who basically don't like you. But there is another graver aspect. To attend the Memorial with the Witnesses would be the same as to say that one accepts the way they are acting towards abuse victims, wich I guess could be labelled crime by association in the eyes of God. By the way if you want an update on the abuse issue in Sweden, one elder - actually the same elder that asked me to hand in my resignation as a JW after I had told him that my conscience forbade me to accept their horrid "advertisement" towards Anders - told me that the organisation had "put it behind them and that the are now moving on". Well I can not imagine that God Jehovah has put behind him the terrific disfamation of his name that this led to. Which is why I wouldn't recommend anyone to celebrate anything with the JW:s.
Carol M	Tuesday, April 6, 2004 @ 7:31 PM
Unacceptable I am overwhelmed! I cannot believe what has been allowed to transpire in this religion. Why hasn't more been done to stop them? Not only are these people criminals, but they are insane. I am having a hard time getting my words out because i thought my sexual abuse case was unusual in the organization. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness by foster parents whom the organization considered to be upstanding people. Due to years of abuse i was an emotional wreck. I ran away from them when i turned 17 and never went back. Thank God, that i was strong enough to keep my sanity and survive. I'm certain that it was because i received professional help. When they came knocking at my door two years ago i spilled the beans, i had had enough of there "higher than almity" attitude. Each and every day i make progress and are really starting to understand what they are really about. My sister also lived with us for about 5 years then returned to my biological mothers home. She was also abused and when she was older advised the elders about the situation, who did nothing. I am sitting here in shock! I had no idea it was a universal issue with JW's. My sister and i were just talking about writing a letter to the WBTS regarding out past and other issues. How ironic is it that a week later i come across the article in the Houston Chronicle. There are so many things i could say to the people. If you think about it! What do they do for the children? I can tell you NOTHING! They expect a small child to sit still for 2 hours and not say a word. The people making the decisions in this organization don't know anything about children. They don't teach the children on their level, so there is no true respect for the religion. I sat there so many Thursday's and Sunday's thinking about how sad my life was and what i was dealing with, that i rarely heard anything they were preaching. What do they really expect, if you don't listen to the children when they grow up they will turn away from you. Fear is the religion's only motivator. Do what they say, or face the consequenses. You are so brain-washed from the beginning that if that dosen't keep you from saying something, fear will. They think they have it all figued out. You haven't heard the last of me yet.
ilidio	Tuesday, April 6, 2004 @ 9:42 PM
To: honey Honey, I left the Jehovahs witnesses just about 2 years ago and have to deal with the shunning practice that that is well practiced by the JW which by the way doesnt affect me at all. I still speak to all the witnesses I see even thought they dont talk back me. I figure that religion is based on 2 things: LOVE and FORGIVNESS (certainly Jesus lived by it). If they cant show neither that does not say much about them, doest it? What I have a real problem with is an elder that works in an investment company that keeps calling me for me to invest with his company. Doesnt that sound a bit funny to you? You see if I invest with him he gets a percentage of my investment. So he is not supposed to talk to me at all, but businesses are ok? The things they do for the love of money! Perhaps they ought to change their names to Pharisees witnesses Clean your act and stop being an hypocrite.
Bonnie W	Wednesday, April 7, 2004 @ 12:59 PM
married I am married to a witness and I find some of their beliefs out to lunch as a victim of abuse myself if I would not have had my church to turn to I don't know what I would have done. my sympathy to all those who were abused by the witnesses and no where to turn may God be with you
Jacob	Wednesday, April 7, 2004 @ 4:29 PM
harboring criminals? At a recent JW assembly there was related an experience of a man who when about to be baptised informed the elders he had murdered to criminals 15 years before and had never been arrested or caught, as no one reported these men were missing and their bodies never found. The elders advised he turn himelf in, which he did, leading the police to the place where he had buried the bodies. He was subsequently tried and is still in prison and is using the chance to preach the good news to others prisoners. ----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-This appears to be a cover for the murder letter posted on this website. As stated in publications and the elders book criminal conduct before baptism is considered a non event and thus elders are advised to stay neutral as they are also advised regarding cases of child moelstation in non reporting states. It appears this is a fabraicated story by Jacob to counter public opinion about current and long standing WT policy. This highlights the fact that if anyone confesses to a serious crime committed before they learnt the truth of God's word they must turn themselves in. Of course a pedophile who was not genuinely wanting to do right would not even confess his previous crimes to the elders and they cant be held responsible for accepting him if they dont know his past.
Michelle L	Wednesday, April 7, 2004 @ 4:39 PM
Comfort I feel much better when I'm in relationship with The "CREATOR". We all have our good and bad memories but what do you really want to put your energy into? I'm not yet baptized and I have come a long way. I have been abuse as a young child and It does stay with you through out your life. People are effect by the affects in life but like I mentioned above I do feel much better in relation with JEHOVAH. It doesn't feel good to be in a negative atmosphere. I hate it. People will always try to bring you down to prove something that has eventual bad outcome. Know what I mean. I hold nothing back. bk, NY
Jacob	Thursday, April 8, 2004 @ 2:36 AM
Amarillo case News just in on this case- the WTBTS was excluded from the list if defendants while the local congregations ( elders) remained as defendants and the matter will go to trial. Amarillo Globe News 4/4/04 -------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-the decision is on appeal but either way there will be a trial.
MA	Thursday, April 8, 2004 @ 4:37 AM
to ilidio I think you are better than me cuz while you are not affected by the shunning practice (e.g. you walked up to some JW in a restrant which I might add cuzzed me to fall off my chair laughing) I have to think up new and imaginitive ways to talk talk to my old jw chums. Your posts have givin me new inspiration! :-)
JOHN HODGE	Thursday, April 8, 2004 @ 8:56 PM
THE CHILDFIND FOUNDATION OF ST.LOUIS.MO.63129 http://tinyurl.com/qb9f THANK-YOU. JOHN HODGE. PRESIDENT. CHILDFIND FOUNDATION. ST.LOUIS.MO.63129
NN	Friday, April 9, 2004 @ 4:24 AM
practises in the JW org When one considers the doings of the JW org it is easy to get fooled by their "everyone is doing the same thing/believing in the same thing" doctrine. But this is an illusion, there are an immense lot of "understandings", on all levels and therefore their way of doing things varies a lot from place and time. But wether a way of acting is really appreciated this organization is always happy to be able to use it when it fits their purpose, as like this story of a murderer. If, of course it wasn't false. To use lies - also called theocratical cunning and a part of the so called theocratical warfare - to advance their "cause" is no problems for the organisation today.
SCoS	Friday, April 9, 2004 @ 8:03 AM
too late for some but well done When my sister in law aged 15 finally came forward and bravely outed her non-witness father for abusing her for years, it tore the family apart. Her mother a devout witness, wanted to brush the whole matter under the carpet and told my sister in law to move out. I insisted to her mother that she must go to the police and if she did not I would. The whole matter was dealt with in a very messy manner by the local elders, who expressed their upset at the police being involved because of the bad press it would bring in the local community. My sister in law left home age 15 at the directive of the elders and moved from pillar to post, sleeping on peoples (non witnesses) living room floors etc. The elders rallied round her mother while the father was in prison but abandoned my sister in law and the upshot was, my sister in law was blamed for seducing him (!!???) and was interrogated at judicial committee meetings to that effect. She was dissassociated (she was unbaptized) by the elders over some minor issue after she fell away (having been banished from her home and the area) as the whole thing caused so much upset in the congregation, it seemed better to 'make it go away'. She was so seriously disturbed by everything, she needed help and compassion, not the fear and shunning. Years later, my sister in law is a drug addict, alcoholic, is very promiscuous and has even protituted herself. She is incredibly mentally disturbed. Her mother ( who later admitted that she knew the abuse was taking place ever since the child was 3 - but was going to wait upon Jehovah to set things straight in the new system) is still a respected member of the congregation. Her abusive non beliving husband is spoken highly of as he attends memorials yearly and has over the years had intermittent bible studies (in which young girls - daughters of the study conducters were allowed to associate freely with him etc.) The mother chose to stay with this man (even though scripturally she has had opportunity many times over to divorce him) and my sister in law has looked on all these years not only as a victim but as an outcast and labled as the evildooer. I hope thanks to this campaign, others will not suffer the way she has and still is.
ilidio	Friday, April 9, 2004 @ 8:14 AM
To: MA and all the EX JW's To: MA Many people say that they wasted many years in the Jw. I can not say that for myself. Going in field service for near 15 years made me a very bold person and an excellent speaker so not all was lost. I can say that they made me, so they have to put up with me now. I will speak to every single witness I know. A couple months ago I was in an elevator filled with people I saw a woman that was my wife's best friend, I said to her "hello Joanna long time no see you" of course she said nothing. So I said "just because your are a Jehovah's Witness you think you are better than the rest of us?" My friend, that was a witness to all the people present in the elevator. I accomplished more by saying that than a witness going field service for an entire year. Master up boldness and talk to all the witnesses you know. That will help you recover faster, much faster. The right thing to do if for us to continue courteous and be nice to all the people we know. That is what a God of love would want us to do. Always remember LOVE and FORGIVNESS.
geevee	Saturday, April 10, 2004 @ 7:12 AM
hmmmmm... Using your WT Library CD, type in the search engine "disfellowship" and see which WT articles turn up. Ask your self why doesn't the August 1st Wt of 1974 turn up in the search??? Also I would like to add...great work in the court case mentioned in the latest newsletter. I wonder if it is possible for Elders to get their own insurance before they cop anything like this?
V.M	Saturday, April 10, 2004 @ 2:05 PM
JW this is a bunch of b.s stop picking on j.w let them do what they plase!!!
DEC	Sunday, April 11, 2004 @ 4:47 PM
May the truth be known I recently learned of this web site and am pleased to see that the truth of what has been going on in the organization is coming to light. My daughter at age 12 (which was 28 yrs. ago) was one of many sexually abused victims in a Pa. cong. The elders kept sweeping it under the rug. When one of the mothers had had enough and pressed charges, she was dfs. The wts only seems interested in saving face and keeping up the charade of a worldwide loving brotherhood. The most innocent of all and most deserving of love and protection have been abandoned by the elders. I truly hope that this is the beginning of freedom for all those who have been forced to submit to a heartless heirachy.
na	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 8:49 AM
WT mtg I will say this, you certainly have EVERYONE'S attention. During last Sunday's WT mtg, we dicussed the article about being deceived. One of the subheadings dealt with "Being Deceived by Apostates" and the place was going on and on about "silentlambs". I conduct the WT and after re- directing the group back to the article I made mention that,"for an alleged group of apostates, we sure know all about them." People are tuning in, and hopefully learning something along the way. Thanks for the info.
Kate	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 12:39 PM
Finally, I no longer feel alone! I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I was also sexually abused by elders from the Kingdom Hall from a very young age. I never told anyone. I thought that it was all my fault. I was told by these elders that if I told I would not live to see the paradise. Armageddon would come and God would kill me. I lived my life in great fear, believing that God was a hateful God and so ensued many suicide attempts. I thought that I was the only one in the world that this had happened to. I still believed that until last week, at age 28, when a friend of mine stumbled upon the silentlamb website while signing us up for the D.C. 5K walk. I spent the whole night at her house on the computer reading things off of the web site. I was shocked! There are thousands of people that this has happened to! I am so thankful for this site and I look forward to meeting some members at the 1st Annual Race to Stop The Silence in D.C.
Cherie	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 1:49 PM
Letting it out I hated the meetings.1975 was coming.Armaggedon.Dont cough during the meeting.Head straight for the car when meeting was over,dont stop to talk to anyone,no visiting whith any body.No answering during meeting.No associating. Up at 6:00 every morning to study the WT and writting out the answers to all the questions(in perfect handwritting) then you can eat.Forgot to take lunch w/ you to school to bad no dinner either. Out in service door to door having to wait for 6 or more hours while they went door to door to door.It gets hot in Southern Ca!!!One time ,I was about 9 maybe was allowed to go to the door and had to go to the bathroom sooooooooo bad but no you have to wait.I PEED right there on the householders front step. Then there was the other abuse.My Dad molested me for quite a few years.When I was "blooming" it started I think (ive blocked out so much) I know that the one thing that finaly broke me was at 14 years old ,I took 1 piece of Sees candy from my stepmoms stash and lied about it(she counted it I guess)Well I did confess and was stripped down and literally laid out on the livingroom floor and whipped with a branch of a bush nearly 100 times.There were horrible blood marks on me at PE time at school the next day.My only girlfriend had had enough and she tricked me into going to the Principals office.She reported it.Oh man the cops came and asked a million questions.I was soo scared to go home I ran away that day.After about 5 hours I called the house and said to my stepmom Im not comming home until Daddy tells what hes been doing to me.I was in control I thought.Wel he told her I guess cause he was crying when the overseer and his wife pick me up and took me home. He was df'd almost imediatly and when he went to court he pleaded guilty and got 3 years probation and had to go through counseling.I was never given any counceling or even a kind word.That sucked.No mom to hold me and tell me Id be safe.NOTHING.This could go on and on but the real clincher is he was reinstated later on and served as an elder for years.When there was an uproar about those serving as elders who had been convicted for 'abuse'stepping down from their post he resigned from elder position. I later found out that he had been sexually abused also by Both his JW parents.in the 40s.Well now here I am at 48 and still bear resentment but have sought my own counceling and have moved on.Still cant even walk into a KH without feeling like vomiting shaking and a whole bunch of other feelings. I serve our Lord in my every day doings.Its whats in your heart that counts and not one thing or person(s) cant take you from HIM. GOD THAT FELT GOOD!!!! Thanks for this site to tell all.He also is in the pediphile listing for Poway california and his name is Dee Lafoon.
M.A.N.	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 4:08 PM
To V.M. I've made errors in the past due to misreading comments, so I want to be sure before I say anything. There is a comment that appears to be from v.m. and says "JW". It is dated Sat., April 10th. Exactly what are you trying to say? I quote "this is a bunch of b.s stop picking on j.w let them do what they plase!!!". What is a bunch of b.s.? This site? The complaints from victims? Let who "do what they please"? (By the way, learn how to spell.) Who is "j.w."? Does this stand for Jehovah's Witnesses or do you mean someone on the guestbook who uses "j.w." for their initials? Why don't you clarify your position so people can answer you?
Pam	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 4:35 PM
to Cherie Ive been to meetings and door to door since I was 7 years old and never had the experiences you describe.
NN	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 4:54 PM
Love to Cherie!! Your horrible story is so typical for this kind of partiarcal-hieracal organisation that has THE MAN and his needs - not God - as it's focus point. What is obvious is that this organisation ignores the fact that the Bible innumerable times states that an inevitable part of true worship is to take care of the "small", that is children and other persons that can't protect themselves. This proves beyond all doubt that this is "bad religion".
Corinne	Monday, April 12, 2004 @ 11:51 PM
will i be silenced? Satan, through this seemingly heroic site, is certainly doing a good job of twisting the truth. Wittingly, or unwittingly many more will try to help him like this site and its supporters. It's really sad to see those who have lost faith in Jehovah's promises for a paradise filled with righteous ones turn to slandering His earthly organization. Jesus' message of love and forgiveness was for repentant sinners (the ones who show their repentance by their actions, not just words), not for those who take advantage of Jehovah's Witness policies to prey on innocent followers, especially the very young. To label the whole organization as secretive for the sake of being permissive towards such shameful and morally bankrupt behavior is a perversion of the truth. Boasting about how you left your congregation, then regaling others with ways you have spoken to a former JW friend who misses you with all their heart.. where is YOUR love? If you left your congregation to seek the Truth, why aren't you behaving like the True Christian we should all be striving to become? Would a follower of Jesus' teachings act so haughtily towards their fellow believers? If I knew one of the brothers or sisters was a sexual predator, I would keep a close eye on them in the congregation. How would I do that if I was no longer in the congregation!? Is it harmfully gossipping about that person if it is a fact? I thought harmful gossip was spreading untruths. If you know you were molested &/or if you knew someone had been molested, it is unreasonable and inconceivable to me that the elders would not believe you. How can you run away and abandon the very children you say you are trying to protect? Isn't such behavior more hypocritical? I have thought many times about leaving my congregation. Each time, the last question I asked myself was, "Am I being stumbled by the people or by the principle?" False followers of Jehovah God and His son, Jesus Christ, will be cut off. There are no ifs ands or buts. True followers are proven by their actions and their love for one another. Aren't we trying to support Jehovah and His visible earthly organization? Don't you want to make it change while remaining close to it and not trying to break it apart? The thing I liked about JWs was that, unlike Christendom and its adherents, when the organization was shown something was wrong, it changed. Please pray for discernment and if you are who I think you are (I guess, even if you aren't X p, hehe) I wanted to hug you and I really miss you, but I really think you are more needed in our congregation than out of it. Be my fellow spiritual foodaholic again (remember Brother Kim's talk? the sister salad? u da skinny lettuce gal and I da jolly tomato~) Have faith in Jehovah's qualities and in His promises (what was that about having a hard time finding Mr. Perfect in paradise bc they'll ALL be perfect? ^,~*) Come back. I love you. ------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-We will put it up to see if anyone else can figure out what is being said here.
DEC	Tuesday, April 13, 2004 @ 9:58 AM
question ? With all the sexual abuse that has gone on in the congregations for many decades and the thousands who are disfellowshipped each year for immorality, drug abuse and various other sins......when exactly is the organization clean?
AK	Tuesday, April 13, 2004 @ 1:53 PM
To na First of all, I am surprised to see the comments of a prominent elder,i.e.; Watchtower Study Conductor here. I am glad to see that some elders have the guts to at least see what is going on and give some tacit support by their comments on this site. I am no longer serving in any capacity within the org, in fact have left over conscience. I could not stand in front of a KH audience and have any sense of personal dignity, with the atrocities that have been done in the name of God. I offer a call to all the closet lovers of truth, especially elders. STAND UP AND BE COUNTED! Literally! April is abuse awareness month - why not choose your opportunity (a talk, Wt conducting, meeting for field service, ect.), the more public the better. Get up there and throw out the Societal script that you have been reading from for your entire life, denounce the wickedness that is being covered up, as well as the doctrinal errors that have enslaved many of us for decades until we found out the truth of matters. Then publicly step aside as an elder and let them do thier worse. I think that Jesus or Paul would have done just that! Will You imitate that sort of love for the children? Trust me, you will make true friends for life even after they DF you. Do you have the guts to really stand up for principles? Most do not!
NN	Tuesday, April 13, 2004 @ 3:02 PM
To Pam & Corinne Pam, just because it didn't happen to you doesn't say it cannot happen - or is it? If so you are using the same logic as Corinne. So very nice and simple for you, and for me since I do not have to pity you, when you finally realise that you have been living a lie. Once and for all, The Watchtower does not have copyright on God Jehova or the Bible, and it is ceartanly not an organisation devoted to the Truth. And was it wrong for me to leave? well I told them from the very start, and I have told both witnesses and others several times since then, that if I ever realised that this was not the truth - I would leave. When the Watchtower in Sweden made their stand in the abuse question by harassing a young (and allegedly abused) man, that still was a member, in the press by a so called advertise - where they quoted the abusers words as The Truth - my conscience did not allow me to stay on. I gave them a year to see what happened, but the only thing I saw was that this sect went further and further from the truth in to their own world with it's own rules. And this I could not abide sinc my standards remain the same, and I am not ashamed to say, fairly well tuned to the Bible.
Jacob	Tuesday, April 13, 2004 @ 4:54 PM
to DEC There are 200,000 JW's in the US. sl claims of about 23,000 on the Child Protection register have not been confirmed and if true would exceed even the normal population statistics of 0.05%. So I have to question those stats. It is unlikely that more than 1/100 JW's are on the pedophile register!---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-These apostates are always trying to give misinformation! There are 1,000,000 JW's in the USA and the database covers around 3,000,000 of the JW membership so that is about one for every three congregations.
the mole	Tuesday, April 13, 2004 @ 6:34 PM
the real truth no matter what truth is said once a person seen but one color and then blinded will always remember that color even though that cant see anymore, the same is true for those indoctrinated into the org. they found one grain of truth and refuse to see what else goes on within their halls and within the org. if the org be the truth then it should be able to stand on its own and any gossip or lies would be repelled without any effort but as we all know this is not the case with the org. its multitude of lawers and false articles and baseless predictions have defamed gods name. one only have to read an old magizine to see that christ teachings keep changing with new light making jesus' words meaningless. for christ and god are perfect and their word is perfect, so to say too thousand of believers they have new light undermines the very being who is perfect. is the org a believer or predictor of gods truth? if anyone does what is bad and the victim goes to the police then is subjected to disfellowshipping for doing so, shakes the very foundation of the org and proves they are lacking gods truth. as i have seen in my own hall, the actions of the elders and deeds of many within, the spirtuality we need is not in the kingdom hall. it is in our hearts god will seek out not a membership in a man made org. to truly be christian, christ words come first not policies or mundane rules created by would be pharasee's......the mole...
Jacob	Tuesday, April 13, 2004 @ 11:11 PM
my mistake You are correct - there are over 1,000,000 JW's in the US - but that still makes the figure of 23,000 pedophiles disproportionate to the general population. Does your 3,000,000 include only all Western countries? Or what? It is still grossly disproportionate to the general population stats of 0.05% as it works out to be 1/130. If as you stated recently the register now numbers is now 30,000 then that is 1% or 1/100. Not very likely given the general population statistics. Im inclined to agree with the official statement from the WT PR that the real figure is much less than what you claim. Add to that the fact that there are far more women JW's than there are men and the majority of pedophiles are men, then your stats are an obvious exaggeration. ------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-We are happy to see you correct yourself on the number of JW's on the USA and hope you can eventually correct your reasoning on the coverup of the database of pedophiles within the organization. We believe our numbers are now conservative since all the documentaries have aired since that number was reported. If WT wants to come clean then simply give the actual number for that would certainly set the record straight regarding the truth of these matters. As long as they continue to hide the numbers we have to believe it is far more than we indicate. By the way when questioned by the BBC the PR stated the actual number was not "meaningful" to give. We have to wonder who is was not "meaningful" for?
KL	Wednesday, April 14, 2004 @ 1:13 AM
I'm baaaaaa-aaaaack! Hey y'all. I really missed all this trash talk. How uplifting!!! :):) In regards to the man who said that his meeting went on and on about the silentlambs during the "apostate" watchtower study, I want to say that I too commented at my meeting about this, saying that "I can personally attest that even Elders can be apostates, molesting children, and that if anyone knows of any such crime, they should report it immediately, and there is a great website, silentlambs.com, that can really help." I was expecting a great backlash, but as of yet have gotten none. The calm before the storm???? IMPORTANT - My case is moving forward and as of yet I have not heard of any other victims. It will be interesting to see if my judge follows suit and removes the WTBS as defendants. I will keep you updated. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU OR ANYONE YOU KNOW HAS ALSO BEEN MOLESTED BY THIS MAN - A.W. "Red" HARRIMAN OF THE COLFAX, CA, USA CONGREGATION. Thanks.
DEC	Wednesday, April 14, 2004 @ 8:24 AM
to Jacob My question to you again is: WHEN exactly is the organization clean?
KH	Wednesday, April 14, 2004 @ 10:51 AM
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! I AM NOT JEHOVAH WITNESS AND WILL NEVER BE! BUT, I HAVE MARRIED A MAN WHO'S ENTIRE FAMILY IS IN THIS STRANGE RELIGION. THERE HAS BEEN SEXUAL ABUSE IN HIS FAMILY WITH HIS MOTHER, SISTERS AND AUNTS. I CANNOT BELIEVE HOW MUCH FAMILY VALUES ARE LACKING WITH THESE PEOPLE I MEAN THEY HAVE NONE! MY HUSBAND THANK-GOD HAS NOTHING MORE TO DO WITH THIS RELIGION FOR HE WAS FORCED TO GO DOOR TO DOOR AS YOUNG BOY. HE ALSO CANNOT STAND THE WAY THIS RELIGION PROTECTS SEXUAL PREDATORS. KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING AND LETS BRING THIS BOGUS RELIGION DOWN ON IT'S KNEES!
b	Wednesday, April 14, 2004 @ 4:12 PM
? Mostly Re TX Elder-Pedophile Larry Kelley A quick question for Bill Bowen. I believe some years ago this same elder Larry Kelley was also involved in a separate trial in which he admitted the national organization for Jehovah's Witnesses wanted things done "in-house," meaning not told to the police. At that time the trial involved incest between a brother and his sister. The sister wanted monetary compensation for her having had to pay for visits to therapists after her brother kept raping her and the elders, although informed, told her to shut up and not tell the police. Now in reading a couple articles about Kelley, I'm wondering if this isn't still another lawsuit with still another victim involving this same Texas JW elder. One article said he had attracted children in the hall, including Amy B., via puppets, to more easily get to and molest them. Tim Gardner of Richmond, Missouri, was a ministerial servant who was convicted for molesting a kid outside his kingdom hall although there well may have been scores of other victims including kingdom hall attenders' children, and Gardner used a similar modus operandi. Namely, he drew kids to himself by dressing up and acting as a pantomime clown. So I'm noting the pedophiles' similar methods, and also asking about Kelley. I've had friends in the vicinity of both the Texas and Richmond, MO halls, but they have moved away. I no longer want anything to do with the congregations as they hide the perverts and send them preaching to one door then another all over the world, which is insanity. But my interest in the situation remains, so I wonder if you can respond about Kelley? ----- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-we are not familiar with the earlier trial so we cannot comment. YOu might contact Kim Norris for further information.
ilidio	Thursday, April 15, 2004 @ 9:06 PM
To: Corinne To: Corinne Satan through the organization is doing a much greater job, no question about it. He has got all of you so blinded that you work for him thinking you are doing Gods work, and just like you said wittingly or unwittingly many more will try to help Satan as they continue joining the org. The message you carry is not of LOVE and FORGIVNESS, in fact you carry a message (be a JW or be destroyed) of doom. Yes, the org. is very secretive, if you dont believe me go to a public library and do a search of the following: (REGISTRATION SEGMENT NO.33-96974, CONTRACT# N00014-01-M0208, NAVY CONTRACT#s N41756-02-M-2026 & N41756-02-M-2037) see what you find out than let us talk about secrecy, till than please dont parrot what you hear at the kingdom hall. If you do that, well it just makes you a parrot! God gave you a brain and you are supposed to use at least 12% of it. If you have the truth what are you doing on this site? Apparently you have doubts yourself! You keep referring to Jesus through out your message. Once I hear that name 2 things come to mind: LOVE AND FOROGIVNESS. Does the org . show any of the two????? To illustrate with a REAL story: A young woman at the age of 16 got pregnant. She was promptly disfellowshipped, the father had died, the mother and the rest of the family as well as the cong. would not talk to her or even help her in her crisis. Is this the love and forgiveness you are talking about?? To me this was like finding a person drowning in the deep sea and telling the person, JUST SWIM TO THE SHORE, ONCE YOU GET HERE WE WILL GIVE YOU A HAND. Can you just imagine how many acts of love and kindness like this one have been performed by the org??? You ought to be ashamed of yourself to come here parroting the same blah blah blah blah . I am not one of those truck drivers, window washers, or street sweepers that at night become counselors of the congregation. Please do not insult my intelligence or the intelligence of others that come to this site for that matter. Once I felt the same way you do and kept defending the org as Gods representative on earth, when calamity struck my family I went to the elders with other witnesses to have the matter resolved, would you like to know what happened? The person cried a good tune and was promptly forgiven. The victim was told to keep quiet or be disfellowshipped as this would bring reproach on Jehovahs name. Isnt this another example of YOUR love and forgiveness? You also mention that we should support Jehovah and his visible earthly org. What are the signs of this visibility? A congregation that worldwide harbors child molesters? Do yourself a favor by sending all the watchtower magazines to Iraq as WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION and read the bible more. That is the only book that can give you the knowledge to everlasting life.. I could go but your 5 minutes are up.
Tabu	Friday, April 16, 2004 @ 6:12 PM
Keep your eyes on the prize I learned the hard way, religion has nothing to do with God. Religion is mans way of hurting and abusing one another. I have yet to go to any church that will announce that any member new or old is a pedophile or rapist. All religions and relgious leaders are guilty of the crime of sacraficing the congregation of lambs in the name of not shaming God. It has been my experience that God can take care of himself, he never needed us to make him look good. He told us to love thy brother, that doesn't mean sacrafice our children. I know Jehovah is watching and he is not going to forget, the consequences still reap upon those who abuse the innocent even if they are forgiven. Life is a circle and death is not the end. Jehovahs justice will precail, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it won't happen. Keep the love ask for support and run for your lives. Keep it real, if it feels wrong then it is. You don't need any religion or family to care for you when you have God. Rememer be as innocent as a dove but as cautious as a serpent. You have to be cautious because you are dealing with things that are less than animals, they are a disease and should be wiped off the face of the earth, have faith this is not the end only the beginning. Sorry for your pain and your loss. Just know that there is a stranger out in the world that loves you no matter how scared or scarred you are. ME.!!! Love you all always.
	Monday, April 19, 2004 @ 4:18 PM
The Watchower is NOT Gods organization on earth. It is a high control group with the very few directing the lives of the multitudes. You will not change it because it is built on a foundation of pride and arrogance. The few at the top don't like to be told to change. As the Watchtower printed 3/1/1979,pg.24: "Outside the true Christian congregation what alternative organization is there? Only Satan's organization..." Do you really think these are people who are open to examine their actions?
NN	Tuesday, April 20, 2004 @ 4:03 PM
Against the constitution? What I would like to know if it would be possible to get the Watchtowér org convicted because of that it forbidds it's members to have anything to do with former witnesses, if you associate you will be df. This policy gives the leaders a huge powers, partly because of the treath of becoming ostracised and partly because of that the knowledge of the df's immediately becomes illegal and impossible to use for members. is it really possible for an organisation to have such laws in the United States?
Ruzell R	Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 5:10 AM
Good Home You have done an exceptional job in creating and designing this website
SLF	Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 4:14 PM
Victims On behalf of PA Governor Edward G. Rendell, Budget Secretary Michael J. Masch today presented a proclamation during the annual observance of Holocaust Memorial Day sponsored by the Pennsylvania Jewish Coalition. Secretary Masch shared the program with Holocaust survivors, their family members, rabbis and Giora Becher, Consul General of Israel. Pursuant to an Act of Congress on October 7, 1980, the United States Holocaust Memorial Council designated the Days of Remembrance of the victims of the Holocaust, including the International Day of Remembrance known as Yom Hashoah, to remember the victims of the Holocaust as well as to reflect on the need for respect of all of humanity. "As painful as the memories of the Holocaust are for survivors and as difficult as it is for others to comprehend the atrocities committed by the Nazi regime, we are also inspired by the courage and perseverance of the survivors," Secretary Masch said. "The men, women and children that survived the Holocaust serve as an eternal inspiration and a beacon of hope for all of humanity. Generations will be preserved as a result of their survival."
M.A.N.	Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 4:44 PM
To NN I already checked about the constitutional issue. The answer was that membership in a religion is a voluntary act and the government stated that religions have the right to determine what morals, rules, etc. they want to have. If they violate the laws of Caesar, of course, they will be taken care of by the law. For instance, Utah had a hard time when it wanted to become a state because the Mormons believed in a man's right to have multiple wives. The Mormons, the territory of Utah, and all citizens were told this practice was illegal and would be prosecuted. Utah finally became a state, but there still are a few die- hards in the news every so often who try to keep more than one wife. They always lose in court. The courts have always ruled that the Federal law is above any religious law. One religion tried to make smoking ganja, if that's the spelling, a part of their worship. I think this is a type of marijuana from Jamaica. They claimed the Bible said in Genesis "God gave them every sort of seed bearing herb and plant". So they thought the "herb" was scripturally proper. I remember the lawyer for the government telling them that poison ivy was also "given to man", but he didn't see anyone smoking that. I think the religion was called the Coptic Church. I'm a Psychology major and agree with you that damage is being done to people.
Pam	Wednesday, April 21, 2004 @ 5:19 PM
to NN You cannot be df for associationg with a df person. Counselled and advised, but not df. When it comes to family members, a 1974 WT states the elders leave that to the individual conscience. ANd the same applies to any accidental encounter with a df person. If you speak to the person with a view to enouraging him to come back, and not side with him if he opposes the truth, then that too is not " spiritual fellowship".This could happen in the workplace, for example. As for the Constitution - there are many all male groups that dont allow female members. While this may be dsicrimination, it is not against the constitution to bar people from membership.------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- sientlambs reply-typical ignorance of JW guidelines is displayed in these comments. Everyone that has been or is a JW knows you can be df for associating with a df person, this is a strictly enforced guidline that goes all the way back to 1980 when Ray Franz was df for eating with a disassociated person. Any family member that offers or exchanges spiritual instruction with a df relative can and will be df. This is a common knowledge fact to any active JW in the organization and it is beyond comprehension that anyone could be this misinformed. It leaves only one conclusion that this person is offering misinformation purposefully to mislead the readers of this guestbook. Future posts of this nature will be deleted.
Cherie'	Thursday, April 22, 2004 @ 2:12 PM
Thank you NN
	Thursday, April 22, 2004 @ 9:37 PM
Millstone Dedication this Sun. in NJ. Recorder Newspapers December 4, 2003 MENDHAM - Jesus Christ's admonition that whoever harms a child should have a "heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea" is the basis for a monument to be placed at St. Joseph Church as the nation's first memorial to victims of sexual abuse by priests. The idea for placing the 400-pound stone at the Main Street church came as 40 sexual abuse survivors and their families mourned the death last month of their Mendham friend, James T. Kelly. Kelly, 37, died on Sunday, Oct. 12 after walking in front of a commuter train in Morristown. Through he left no note, he had told friends of the pain he suffered through his life as he was among several dozen others who were abused in the 1970s by former parish priest, James T. Hanley. Among those mourning their late friend were two other Hanley victims, Bill Crane and Mark Serrano and the Rev. Kenneth Lasch. Lasch was among the first clergy members to come out in support of people sexually abused by priests. Crane now lives in Clackamas, Ore. , and is the coordinator of the Oregon chapter of the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests, or SNAP. He said he came up with the idea of using the millstone as an image to commemorate victims and remind people of the need to protect children. "I get so much comfort in his verse," Crane said, referring to Jesus as quoted in the New Testament, Matthew 18:5-6. "It really sinks in the bloodstream about how children are to be protected. It is also a duel message of the stern leadership that is needed and it is a comfort to children." Serrano said the message of Jesus' statements relate perfectly to the plight of those sexually abused by priests. "I can't imagine a better physical symbol of Christ's love and compassion for those abused by the church," said Serrano. "This is not so much a rebuke or a warning as it is a symbol of Christ's priority with children." Like War Victims Crane said he and friends and supporters meeting after the funeral talked about how the Vietnam War memorial in Washington, D.C. , has helped the healing for Vietnam veterans. The same was needed for victims of clergy sexual abuse, Crane said. "We don't want this ever to be forgotten," he said. "To have a physical touchpoint on church grounds is meaningful and powerful. I didn't want the high price we endured to be forgotten." Crane said he has known other victims of clergy sexual abuse who had been tormented and committed suicide. But the death of his longtime friend hit especially hard. The idea of a memorial has helped Crane in his own healing, he said. Lasch said victims of sexual abuse deserve to be remembered in the same way as victims of war or those who die in such calamities as the Sept. 11, 2001, World Trade Center attacks. "So it seems logical that we would honor victims of sexual abuse and know we have a symbolic way of saying we are so sorry for what happened," said Lasch. snapnetwork.org has directions for dedication of Millstone this Sunday 1PM Mendham NJ. Are there any plans for a Jehovah Witness Millstone Dedication for Jehovah Witness victims of sexual abuse by Jehovah Witness Ordained Ministers?
Jacob	Friday, April 23, 2004 @ 5:37 PM
oppressive wolves- Acts 20:28,29 As in the days of the apostles, some of the elders today have proved to be oppressive wolves and not acting on abuse complaints and ignoring the distress of a child is one way they have proven to be oppressive. May they be made to pay by the courts. -------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-I am happy to see your recognition of the Governing Bodies responsibility in hurting children.
Pam	Friday, April 23, 2004 @ 6:06 PM
FYI My husband's boss was df several years ago. He does not make a point of eating his lunch away from his boss or leaving the room when his boss is eating his lunch at work. They often discuss the business over lunch at work, but they dont have any spiritual fellowship. Tony does not run down the WT anyway and if he did my husband would would not agree with what he says. The elders know my husband works for Tony but they dont make any inquiries as to the nature of my husband's daily fellowship with him. They leave it up to his conscience. I also speak to Tony when I visit my husband at work, but liek with my husband it's not spiritual fellowship. --------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Please provide your fathers name and address so we may report him to the Society. the August 2002 KM makes this comment-- 2 How to Treat Expelled Ones: God's Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.... Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor.5:11, 13) Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled one] be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones.--See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981. pages 18-20. 3 This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved, God's Word states that we should 'not even eat with such a man.' (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person, this would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theater or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant. ------------------ Your father should confess his sin to the elders and show repentance for sinning against Jehovah. When you fail to follow your doctrine you show yourself to be a hypocrite and living a lie.
Helen	Friday, April 23, 2004 @ 10:09 PM
Ray Franz Ray Franz was df for agreeing with a df person that the 607-1914 chronology was incorrect. ------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-not so, RF was df for eating with a disassociated person that he worked for.
PS	Friday, April 23, 2004 @ 10:46 PM
apostate site shut down The apostate website "wt o" has been shut down for unauthorised use of WT publications which have a copyright. Be warned! ------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-the name of the website was edited as due to remaining neutral on doctrine we do not show websites that challenge doctrinal issues. However your comment is in error the website mentioned continues to operate and show many publications of the organization.
J.C.	Saturday, April 24, 2004 @ 2:25 PM
A free gift........ .God Bless you in the name of Jesus Christ. God loves you so much that he is willing to forgive your sins and change your life. For all have sinned, and the wages of sin is death, and eternity in burning in hell. But God sent his only son Jesus Christ to die on the cross, only to rise from the dead and conquer death and hell, so that he might be the perfect sacrifice for your sins, and you could have eternal life in Heaven. Salvation is a free gift...nothing you can do to earn it! All sins can be forgiven, except if you reject Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
MA	Saturday, April 24, 2004 @ 9:26 PM
SMs post in the newsletter With 20/20 hindsight this is good advice for someone who has been abused that wants to remain a JW. The catch is not many abused 10 year old JWs will be logging on to SL to read it. It took me 20 years to come to a similar conclusion by myself. Congratulations go to your mum for backing you up but this is certainly not always the case. While it is true you can go against the elders advice, it can be a very lonely time as a JW if you do. When you said Please return to Him if you've left. Do you mean Jehovah or the org? I am also thankful to Bill for letting me get things off of my chest. Do you notice there is not a lot of opportunity for doing that while youre in the org. I will be interested in knowing how your Judicial Committee goes for communicating with Bill.
matriarch	Sunday, April 25, 2004 @ 10:21 AM
support from canada being brave enough to protect children is the most redeeming thing you will do in your life. I hope you all have the best of everything...:*
NN	Sunday, April 25, 2004 @ 1:31 PM
To Pam, I'm starting to get real tired of this "do not blame the organisation" and "wait on jehova to sort it all out" stuff!!! To all of those who are using this kind of argumentation: organisations that use strategies of blaming individuals but denying any responsibility on the part of the (all-mighty) organisation. You ought to be aware of that this is a typical sect/cult behaviour. And any person believing in the Bible also ought to be aware of that God has given us the Bible as a excellent tool to sort out all kind of problems. (I myself for a long time wondered and got quite upset about that the witnesses never seemed to use the Bible in real life, instead everything was just about does and don'ts) And the only time the Bible really rekommends a waiting- strategy is when believers are in an oppressed situation by non-believers. The solution is quite often combined with some kind of retribution against the oppresser (in this case it ought to be the Watchtower org). The way you misuse this scripture is quite disgusting since you by your disuse of it implies that Gods word is really of no use. Why don't you start to live as true christians instead of just talking about it?
D.C.L.	Sunday, April 25, 2004 @ 7:14 PM
To B.M. You You say you are saddened and angered at seeing some people on this site perhaps leaving Jehovah over "some stupid jerks" in some congregations and that we should put some of the blame on ourselves for having no common sense like you apparently think you do. You feel the Elders are just "A lot of imperfect men" and say nothing of the official teachings, I.E. scriptures they use to support their position. Do the silentlambs then refuse to acknowledge those scriptures? Not so! We do not leave Jehovah, but cry out for justice when others fail us. I think you have demeaned the thousands of little victims looking for some help and compassion from Bill and this website. Shame on you for burdening them further. D.C.L.
ilidio	Sunday, April 25, 2004 @ 7:31 PM
To: NN You have the nerve to come here and tell her untrue stories based on information from 30 years (1974 WT) ago! You are way behind in times baby . Have you got any idea how many presidents have we had since that date? Yes, a person can be disfellowshipped for talking to a person who is disfellowshipped who has disassociated herself. How do I know that? Well, it just so happens that about 2 years ago my wife and I wrote letters to the to the elders in our congregation as well as the society and asked to be no part of it any longer. Sixteen months ago my wife and I had a son. The grandmother (my wifes mother, a witness) has not seen her only grandson in nearly 7 months due to being afraid of being disfellowshipped. This is in fact the most ridiculous punishments that the org can do on the followers. I can only imagine on how Jesus would feel over this stupidity. You guys must be dumb as sxxxt to follow such rules. Really, what crime did my wife and I commit or my SON for not being able to know her grandmother? Which by the way my wife and I dont care if we dont see her mother again ever. However I think it is cruel to deprive a baby of knowing the grandmother. Next time you come in here please check your information otherwise please keep mouth shut.
Pam	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 12:10 AM
Quoting out of context again You claim you have the elders handbook - so check it out, and also the many WTs including the 1974 (8/1) - Maintaining a Balanced Viewpoint Towards Disfellowshipped Ones It clearly clarifies the difference between associating over business and family matters and having SPIRITUAL fellowship which means agreeing with false beliefs or immoral behavior, and not opposing it as I am doing here. My own brother was also df many years ago and I have just seen him today, at my mother's house ( she is also a JW) as he comes over and does some of the heavier gardening jobs for her. As to how far you go with associating with DF relatives or workmates is a matter of conscience, and that and the elder's handbook makes very clear. And you did not even read what I said correctly - It is my husband who's boss has been DF, not my father! Just proves you dont read the WT's properly either Ray Franz did side with his landlord (not his boss) over the 607-1914 chronology which as you know disagrees with secular chronology over the 70 year exile. Hence he was having spiritual fellowship with him and not just eating with him, rather than opposing his landlord's false beliefs.--------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-You are simply not telling the truth and the quote from the August 2002 KM shows where the truth lay. IF you are associating with your df relatives and claim to be a JW in good standing you will not be for long. Living a lie and a double life, then coming forward on this guestbook to try and pretend it is ok is the ultimate lie. You need to go try to mislead people somewhere else, future posts of this nature will be deleted. By the way using articles written by Ran Franz as all JW's know regarding the 1974 WT is just simply bad ballet.
Helen	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 12:15 AM
what spiritual fellowship is WT 8/1/74 5 Congregational elders, as well as individual members of a congregation, therefore, ought to guard against developing an attitude approaching that which some Jewish rabbinical writers fomented toward Gentiles in viewing them as virtual enemies. It is right to hate the wrong committed by the disfellowshiped one, but it is not right to hate the person nor is it right to treat such ones in an inhumane way. As noted earlier, some rabbinical writings held that, even if in peril of death, no assistance should be extended to Gentiles. Suppose, then, a member of a Christian congregation boating on a lake were to see another boat containing a disfellowshiped person capsize, throwing the disfellowshiped one into the water where he struggled to stay afloat. Could the Christian ignore that one's peril, row away and feel free from guilt before Godinasmuch as the one in danger of drowning was disfellowshiped, viewed as "a man of the nations"? Certainly not. That would be cruel and inhumane. We cannot imagine Christ Jesus doing so; nor would any other Jew of the first century who had a balanced viewpoint have reacted that way toward a Gentile or a tax collector in such a plight. 6 But consider a less extreme situation. What if a woman who had been disfellowshiped were to attend a congregational meeting and upon leaving the hall found that her car, parked nearby, had developed a flat tire? Should the male members of the congregation, seeing her plight, refuse to aid her, perhaps leaving it up to some worldly person to come along and do so? This too would be needlessly unkind and inhumane. Yet situations just like this have developed, perhaps in all good conscience, yet due to a lack of balance in viewpoint. 7 If we imitate our heavenly Father we will remember that he even showed certain considerateness toward the first human pair after their disfellowshiping in Eden, providing them with clothing. (Gen. 3:21) This was an undeserved kindness toward them. As Jesus reminded his disciples, Jehovah God "makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous." (Matt. 5:45) The apostle Paul showed that, despite the independent course the Gentile nations took contrary to God's way, Jehovah "did not leave himself without witness in that he did good, giving [them] rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling [their] hearts to the full with food and good cheer." (Acts 14:16, 17) So, not "mixing in company" with a person, or treating such one as "a man of the nations," does not prevent us from being decent, courteous, considerate and humane. WHAT SPIRITUAL FELLOWSHIPING INVOLVES 8 The Greek expression used by Paul for "mixing in company with" is the verb syn·a·na·mi'gny·mi, meaning "to mix or mingle together." The basic verb involved (mi'gny·mi) is used at Matthew 27:34 to describe the mixing of wine with gall and at Luke 13:1 to describe Pilate's mixing blood with sacrifices. So it involves a real merging or blending, a uniting into a combination or compound. For us to 'mix in company' with others would imply a fellowship existing among us. The English term "fellowship" has the sense of "comradeship; companionship; friendliness," there being a "community [or, common and mutual sharing] of interest, sentiment, etc." (The World Book Dictionary) So, to fellowship with another means accepting the other person as on an equal standing with oneself, being interested in and entertaining his views, sharing these with an open and favorable attitude. To have spiritual fellowship with another would be, in effect, to have a spiritual 'good time' together. ------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-This is really funny, you are quoting from an article written by Ray Franz to try and show the teh current policy on Dfing??? It is a well known fact in the organization this article was corrected in later writings of the organization and actions toward df individuals was tightened up. An excellent example is the August 2002 KM regarding how to treat relatives. Why do you run back 25 years to quote from an article written by the greatest apostate of the organization?? Typical misinformation from those that have ulterior motives. Now can you guess what the motive is?
ilidio	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 5:56 AM
Message sent in error to NN Sorry NN, after going back I realized that my message was for PAM not for you
MA	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 10:07 AM
Don't cults practice disfellowshipping? Two lines of reasoning against birthdays and the trinity JWs use is; the bible has 2 accounts of birthdays which where held by non believers and something unpleasant happened. The word trinity does not appear in the bible and was a common belief of manmade religions. Now look up the word disfellowship in the concordance of the NWT of the bible, follow the trail and see if their reasoning is consistent. By the way, Corinthians doesnt count because Paul mentioned the wrong doing not the person by name so only the people who knew of this persons hypocrisy where encouraged to act. Silent Lambs is right, JWs take Ding pretty seriously. I once went for reinstatement and had to stop boarding at the home of an x bible study couple in case they wanted to come back to the truth. I was also encouraged to give up my full time job as a storeman because it would stop me from putting kingdom interests first. It would be laughable to tell a reinstatement committee that you where using SL to help with abuse issues. Its no wonder JWs find loopholes to sidestep there own laws. But didnt love fulfil the old law (mat 22 40), maybe you need a new set of laws so others can measure how will you are applying the fulfillment (love) of the old law& hmmm? (Gal 3 2-3)
Jacob	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 4:26 PM
misundertsood me Again! I was referring to elders who are approached by abuse victims callously ignoring their plight being oppressive wolves. The governing body does not have any first hand dealings with abuse victims.-------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-The Governing Body has known first hand about the abuse issue since at least 1992 when a fifty page report was filed with them outlining the extent of the problem. Three specfic recommendations were made in the interests of protecting children. To this day not one of those recommendations have been acted upon. The people that control the wolves bear the ultimate responsibility.
voideater	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 8:32 PM
To SM - Common Sense The difficulty with accepting blame because we do not use common sense to protect ourselves or children is two- fold: first, we abused children are blameless; and, second, we abused children and the typical sheep in the congregations are expressly forbidden to use common sense. The Organization sets itself up as God's representatives on Earth, and we simply are not allowed to speak against them. There is an inherent imbalance of power here - just as a therapist with a client, an adult with a child, so too a minister and a congregant is so lopsided in power that common sense is not available.
Helen	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 8:36 PM
Ray Franz??? The writers of the WT articles have always remained anonymous. In any case it was FRED Franz, not his nephew Ray who was the president of the WTS at that time. In any case, thanks for posting it. As you can see SPIRITUAL fellowship is not just simply speaking to someone about family matters or business. ----------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-As stated this article was corrected with subsequent articles that have followed. Your 2002 KM is the current and correct view held by the organization which is in direct conflict with the 74 Wt article.
elder's wife	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 8:40 PM
Flock book The elders book and more recent WTs do say that elders do not inquire into the extent to which a baptised witness associates with df relatives. ----------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- sielntlambs reply-Sister have you read your August KM? Perhaps you forgot this paragraph? 4 What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah's view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15.1981, page 25, says: "A simple 'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship- Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?" or perhaps this excellent example? 13 After hearing a talk at a circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother. and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized. Now why would you want to apostacise from the belief and teaching of the organization?
Jacob	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 8:50 PM
governing body and abuse victims The governing body does not deal with individual abuse complaints - you have misunderstood AGAIN. Hence they advise elders to report any complaint from a CHILD to the police especially when it required by Law. I know of a case going back 20 years where that was done, and the abuser was not only arrested and jailed but also df'd. But individual elders who ignore complaints from a CHILD are like the wolves spoken of by Paul.They see first hand the distress and pain of young victims and just brush it aside.That is apparently the situation with Amy B in Amarillo. I hope they do have to pay for letting that pervert continue his misdeeds. Adults coming forward for the first time with complaints going back 10-20 years are not treated the same as when a child complains - not even in the courts do they always get justice. They of course can go to the police if the statute of limitations allows it and the outcome of that may determine what happens to the alledged abuser. ------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-You are misinformed, elders are instructed to remain neutral when it comes to reporting abuse unless required by law. This is a well known fact for those that have served and dealt with abuse allegations. That instruction comes directly from the GB. The case in Texas if you read the transcript includes information of how elders were directly informed on how to proceed by directives from the Service Department. The lawsuit will soon be amended to include the negligant directives of the GB and everyone in between.
	Monday, April 26, 2004 @ 8:55 PM
Pam, As mentioned before my wife and I asked to be disassociated (we did not commit any sin that was deemed for us to be disfellowshipped) We simply could not agree with the way they were handling abuse cases in the congregation and therefore could not be part of it anymore. We live more exemplary lives that most witnesses we know, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT. We have a small boy (16 months old). My mother in law has not seen us or the baby in 7 months because if she sees either us or the baby she will be disfellowshipped. None of our friends (my wife 30 years and myself 15) now talk to us. The elders get the input on this matter from the society. How can you be so blind about the subject! I, on the other hand talk to all the witnesses I see. If they dont talk to me (which none of them do) it is their decision. However, I will do the right thing and talk to everyone I see, Jesus did that, he spoke to robbers, prostitutes, Pharisees, and the list goes on. If Jesus did that why would I not talk to you? I want to follow Jesus example! Do you??? He based his life on love and forgiveness Are you following his example? In any event the elders book pay attention to yourselves and to the flock says the following on page 103: Proper View of: Disfellowshipped and disassociated ones are shunned by those who wish to have a good relationship with Jeho- vah.
Honey	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 2:06 AM
JW day care centres? (Napa case report) Since when did Jehovah's witnesses operate organized day care centres specifically for JW children? ---------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silehntlambs reply-JW's as a religion fo not operate daycare centers. Individual JW's may operate a local daycare and members of course often support a fellow members daycare center.
Jacob	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 2:10 AM
moral obligation The BOE letters and other WT source state that elders have a "moral obligation" to report abuse to police in states where it is not required by Law. That does not sound to me like any cover up. ---------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-this is a plain pure lie. No where is this stated in any BOE letter or WT article.
Jacob	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 2:29 AM
Abhor What Is Wicked - WT 1/1/97 What of a Child Molester? What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that 'blasphemy against the holy spirit' was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a childwhether incestuously or otherwisecannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around. However, he may still have to struggle with the wrong fleshly impulses he cultivated. (Ephesians 1:7) And there may be consequences that he cannot avoid. Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this. Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting. This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation. What are the Scriptural reasons for this? For one thing, an elder must be "self-controlled." (Titus 1:8) True, none of us have perfect self-control. (Romans 7:21-25) But a dedicated adult Christian who falls into the sin of child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness. Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul's counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: "Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others." (1 Timothy 5:22) For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.Compare the principle at Exodus 21:28, 29. Some may ask, 'Have not some committed other types of sin and apparently repented, only to repeat their sin later?' Yes, that has happened, but there are other factors to consider. If, for example, an individual makes immoral advances to another adult, the adult should be able to resist his or her advances. Children are much easier to deceive, confuse, or terrorize. The Bible speaks of a child's lack of wisdom. (Proverbs 22:15; 1 Corinthians 13:11) Jesus used children as an example of humble innocence. (Matthew 18:4; Luke 18:16, 17) The innocence of a child includes a complete lack of experience. Most children are open, eager to please, and thus vulnerable to abuse by a scheming adult whom they know and trust. Therefore, the congregation has a responsibility before Jehovah to protect its children. Well-trained children learn to obey and honor their parents, the elders, and other adults. (Ephesians 6:1, 2; 1 Timothy 5:1, 2; Hebrews 13:7) It would be a shocking perversion if one of these authority figures were to misuse that child's innocent trust so as to seduce or force him or her to submit to sexual acts. Those who have been sexually molested in this way often struggle for years to overcome the resulting emotional trauma. Hence, a child molester is subject to severe congregational discipline and restrictions. It is not his status as an authority figure that should be of concern but, rather, the unblemished purity of the congregation.1 Corinthians 5:6; 2 Peter 3:14. If a child molester sincerely repents, he will recognize the wisdom of applying Bible principles. If he truly learns to abhor what is wicked, he will despise what he did and struggle to avoid repeating his sin. (Proverbs 8:13; Romans 12:9) Further, he will surely thank Jehovah for the greatness of His love, as a result of which a repentant sinner, such as he is, can still worship our holy God and hope to be among "the upright" who will reside on earth forever.Proverbs 2:21. [Footnote] See "Questions From Readers" in the May 1, 1996, issue of The Watchtower. [Blurb on page 28] While Jehovah forgives repentant sinners, there may be consequences of their actions that cannot be avoided ------ ----------------------------------------------------------- --silentlambs reply-this article is of course posted on the website, it is interesting in that it did two specfic things. 1. The reappointment of child molesters after twenty years policy of the service department was covered up. 2. It was clearly shown that newly released JW child molesters would be required to participate in the door to door work to show repentence. Not very smart. This article was the result of lawsuits filed and settled regarding negligence of the organization in allowing elders to continue to serve that have previoulsy molested children. This recommendation was made to the GB in 1992 they waited five years to do anything about it. How many children were molested as the result of their failure decisevly when the need called for it? Was the slave allowing children to be raped for five years looking after his masters belongings properly?
Pam	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 2:36 AM
df familt members - 81 WT *** w81 9/15 26-9 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . *** If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . AFTER Adam had been alone for some time, God said: "It is not good for the man to continue by himself." Then He created Eve and instituted human marriage. (Gen. 2:18, 21, 22) Thereafter, earth's population was to grow. So each person would come to have many relatives. Even if some family members, such as children, did not live nearby they could be visited and pleasant times shared.Gen. 1:28; Job 1:1-5. 2 God had purposed that families should be united in true worship, so religious beliefs would not create any divisions. But incidents occurred in which religion became a family issue. One of these was when Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled. Jehovah confirmed that he was dealing through Moses and Aaron, not through these religious rebels. Then Moses told the people to get away from the rebels' tents. What would the children and households of Korah, Dathan and Abiram do? Would they put loyalty to family ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his congregation? Most of those closely related to the rebels put family before God. Jehovah executed these relatives along with the rebels.Num. 16:16-33. 3 However, some of Korah's sons remained loyal to God and His people. They were not executed along with the rest of Korah's household and the families of Dathan and Abiram. (Num. 26:9-11) In fact, descendants of these surviving Korahites were later blessed with special service at the temple and mentioned with honor in the Bible.2 Chron. 20:14-19; Ps. 42, 44-49, 84, 85, 87. 4 A similar decision between loyalty to family and loyalty to God was faced when an Israelite became an apostate. Would his family, moved by human emotion or blood ties, try to shield him from being cut off? Or would even his brother, son or daughter realize that loyalty to God and the congregation was the right and wise course? (See Deuteronomy 13:6-11.) In the Christian arrangement today a sinner is not cut off by execution, but Christians may face tests because of a relative's being disciplined. RELATIVES MAY CAUSE PROBLEMS 5 Family connections and affection can be very strong. This is natural and is in accord with God's arrangement. (John 16:21) But these strong ties can also bring a difficult test on Christians. Jesus explained that one effect of a person's becoming a Christian would be that relatives might oppose. Jesus said: "I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me." Matt. 10:34-38. 6 Christians do not want such enmity to exist. And there is no reason why relatives should oppose or hate them for having become clean, moral, honest servants of God. Yet true Christians realize that they cannot put family before God. In the long run, what is in everyone's best interest is for Christians to continue faithful to God. In time they may be able to influence their relatives to walk on the way leading to salvation.Rom. 9:1-3; 1 Cor. 7:12-16. 7 Relatives may also cause problems for true Christians in another way. This may develop when a relative is disfellowshiped. As discussed in the preceding articles, if a person in the congregation unrepentantly practices gross sin, God requires that he be disfellowshiped. (1 Cor. 5:11- 13) The conduct of the wrongdoer has changed his relationship with Jehovah and therefore with family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses. God is not to blame for these results, because his standards are righteous and just. (Job 34:10, 12) Nor does the fault rest with the faithful Christian relatives. It is the disfellowshiped person who has made problems for himself and for his relatives, as did Korah, Dathan and Abiram. 8 We need to examine two distinct situations. The first is where a Christian lives in the same household with a disfellowshiped or disassociated family member. The second is where such a relative is not in the immediate family circle. IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY CIRCLE 9 A person might become a Christian without others in that one's family circle accepting the faith. For instance, a wife might be serving Jehovah, but her husband not. Despite that, she is still "one flesh" with her husband and is obliged to love and respect him. (Gen. 2:24; 1 Pet. 3:1-6) Or she might be married to a man who was a dedicated Christian but was later expelled from the congregation. Yet that would not end their marital ties; only death or a Scriptural divorce would do that.1 Cor. 7:39; Matt. 19:9. 10 Similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshiped or has disassociated himself, blood and family ties remain. Does that mean, then, that in the family circle everything remains the same when one member is disfellowshiped? Definitely not. 11 A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family memberswhile acknowledging family tieswill no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him. 1 Sam. 28:6; Prov. 15:8, 9. 12 That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas. 13 If a minor child is disfellowshiped, the parents will still care for his physical needs and provide moral training and discipline. They would not conduct a Bible study directly with the child, with him participating. Yet this does not mean that he would not be required to sit in on the family study. And they might direct attention to parts of the Bible or Christian publications that contain counsel he needs. (Prov. 1:8-19; 6:20-22; 29:17; Eph. 6:4) They can have him accompany them to and sit with them at Christian meetings, hoping that he will take to heart Biblical counsel. 14 But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. 15 For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household. 16 This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring "leaven" into the home?Gal. 5:9. 17 In Jesus' parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad's pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father's home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.Luke 15:11-32. DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES NOT LIVING AT HOME 18 The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one's home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bible's inspired direction: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person . . . , not even eating with such a man."1 Cor. 5:11. 19 Consequently, Christians related to such a disfellowshiped person living outside the home should strive to avoid needless association, even keeping business dealings to a minimum. --------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlabms reply-As you can see from the 1981 article the stance on treating df relatives was strengthened in 1981. Of course this was over 20 years ago and with the writing of the 2002 article in the KM the stance was tightened yet again to even stricter guidlines. You must keep up to date to follow organizational guidlines. If you are following 1974 and 1981 articles you need to update to not be disrespecting the directives of the organization.
geevee	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 8:18 AM
ks91 Some comments about the elders book are interesting. Many claiming to have copies. The thing is available online so who could doubt it. One comment quotes pg 103. A point to note from an actual book is at the bottom of that page: "Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association or an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course". BUT add to that comment [as is done at elders meetings at circuit assemblies or when the c/o visits]: "Unless they condone the wrong conduct, attempts to mislead others, or criticizes the congregation [action of disfellowshipping] then could be disfellowshipped. The thing is that it would seem that the organization [GB} tightened the whole disfellowshipping thing to get some people. To really "exclude them from the group".
geevee	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 8:25 AM
helen Just another quick one. Helen, you need to get educated. I know that Bill Bowen has his opinion about Ray Franz and I can see where he is coming from, but Helen get yourself a copy of Crisis of Conscience and read it. You might be surprised to learn that the GB do not write most of the material that we are given to read. In his book Ray Franz speaks openly about some of the publications and who wrote them.
NN	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 4:43 PM
Let reality talk To all of you who are quoting Wacthtower publications to condone this destructive sect. Do you really think they would put on paper things that could be used against them? And do you not know that the only thing that counts is the "elders" in various levels of the organisation according to the principle "power is truth". The written word whether from the WT or even the Bible is worth nothing if You try to use it against one of this power mad persons. Perhaps you might not be df but no mather how good quotes you might use against them you will not get away. If they can not get rid of you they will see to it that you are eventually shunned by every one. This is an organisation that is not formed after the Bible but after an old fashioned patriarcal ideal were the male is in charge and has the right to do wathever he wishes, and bend every law to his own benefit. If you do not believe me, tell them that you are posting on this site - a thing that they have forbidden you to do (or are all of you perhaps "elder" in disguise)
geevee	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 6:33 PM
for Jacob Man, get your head out of the sand!!! Here in OZ the letter that was raed to the congregation said what you are saying too. BUT clergy do NOT have mandatory reporting of child abuse of even suspected child abuse. So everyone in the congregation think how you think, BUT it is definitely not the case. I even rang bethel and the guy said that reporting would depend on.......! So who knows what that would be?--------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-also on this website you can read the letter sent to all boe in Australia after the cong letter that tried to explain that they meant calling the authorities meant calling them.
Kate	Tuesday, April 27, 2004 @ 7:30 PM
I no longer go to the kh because of the abuse I suffered there when I was a child. I still believe in God and the bible. How do you get away from such brainwashing that the jw's are the only way? They are full of such hipocracy! I suppose it's like a cult and sometimes I still find myself lapsing into the automated jw response or just because my mother told me that it was right, it had to be. Does anyone have any suggestions? ------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org
avishai	Wednesday, April 28, 2004 @ 1:16 AM
"The BOE letters and other WT source state that elders have a "moral obligation" to report abuse to police in states where it is not required by Law. That does not sound to me like any cover up." --------------------------- ------------- --------------------------------------------- -------------- Yeah, I heard about this announcement to congregations. It's ironic that it happened AFTER the dateline episode aired. Also, I hear that "blood transfusions" and "voting" are now reffered to as a "conscience matter", since they can't outright ban it, but they'll still DA you. Interesting. Another example of them saying one thing and doing another. Also, how are they supposed to report someone to "caeser's authorities" when, according to them, he's innocent due to the two witness rule? It's still business as usual, there are still lawsuits happening in reporting states from abuse in the last two years, lawsuits regarding non-reporting. How do you answer this?
DW in England	Wednesday, April 28, 2004 @ 5:09 AM
Former JW I have to say that I found this site to be particular interesting. My interest is mixture of negative and positive. I am encouraged by the fact that there are people who have the courage and are willing to speak out against certain principles that the Elders would otherwise prefer you keep to yourself. Additionally on the matter of paedophilia - I think that because Jehovah's Witnesses are in the media eye, more so than any other religion - by this I mean - Blood tranfusions issues and the Field Ministry have thrust JW's into the media eye, I think that the issue of paedophiles is a geniune one, but perhaps one blown out of proportion. If anyone geniunely beleives that there are more paedophiles within Jehovahs Witnesses than in Christanity or any other religion, I think that we are all very much mistaken, because it has been highlighted - this is now an assumption. One rumour and mumour leads to another and another and so on. Paedophilia is a problem in society in general, but to label the Kingdom Hall and the faith as a whole as a haven is senseless "bashing" and probably made by people who are either disfellowshipped or perhaps even apostates. I am not suggesting you're wrong, but it is an out-of-the- ordinary issue that has been used to cast yet another stone at the faith. From a positive - I think that, as I said, speaking out is a good thing. My story for leaving the truth was that as a teenager growing up, I rebelled alot against the truth because I wanted to be "free" from the constraints of having to go to the meeting, having to go on the ministry. I never DIDN'T go. There were aspects I liked - alot. I enjoyed giving Number 2 talks, I enjoyed when someone didn't show up for giving a talk on the ministry school and whoever was leading the school asking for a volenteer to deliver the talk - I enjoyed volenteering because I felt that these talks were my faith talking rather than a pre- planned talk designed to encourage. But I never got baptised - never. One day, I was at the Circuit Assembly at Twickenham - as a First Aider, I was on duty and met a really nice sister - someone I was attracted to in mind, personality and body - we developed a friendship, exchanged letters and as I really felt I liked her enough - I decided to make the decision to get baptised and do what I knew was right. After 6 months of following as I should have - the Presiding Overseer - a friend of my female friends father, rung my friends father and told him I wasn't the type of person his daughter should be associating with and that I WOULD definitely be a negitive influence. Despite the fact I was more dedicated than I have ever been - this man - who never liked my family because my Mum was a single parent - he choose to ruin a friendship - right or wrong in his reasons - he choose to do this. I completely lost faith in fairness and Jehovah looking after his witnesses - if my faith was motivated by the wrong thing - who cares - my reasons, which Jehovah would know - were the right reasons. My reasons were honourable and the Presiding Overseer was unfair. Since that day I began to question everything. I have only been to a handful of meetings since. Thank you for listening.
ilidio	Wednesday, April 28, 2004 @ 1:18 PM
To Pam and her pals SHUNNING is a common trait among esoteric movements that claim to be the Truth and Jehovah's Witnesses is one group that practices such extreme shunning of former members. So, members who disavow faith in the Watchtower doctrines are branded "apostates" and Witnesses are taught that they must hate such ones according to Watchtowers Oct. 1, 1993; Nov. 15, 1988; Sep. 15, 1981; Jun. 15, 1980 and July 15, 1961. The primary scripture for consideration is: quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.--1.Cor. 5:11 (NWT) The scripture is clear that a person with whom the congregation should not mix company with is one who is: 1) "called a brother" (which those who leave are not) 2) practicing fornication, greed, idolatry, reviling (insulting), habitual drunkenness, and/or extortion (theft) - which those who leave do not necessarily practice  in fact most of those who leave, have perfectly normal, healthy, moral lives! What of 2 John 10,11? If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works Christians were instructed to "greet" one another with a kiss. (Rom.16:16; 1.Cor.16:20; 2Cor.13:12; 1Pet.5:14;Ti.3:15;) When Paul sent his "greetings" in a letter to the Christians in Thessalonica, he requested that the "brothers" be greeted by a "holy kiss" on his behalf. (1Thess.5:26) It was by this sign that Judas betrayed Jesus. (Luke 22:47,48) Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. The disassociation would quite naturally exclude them from being greeted by the identifying "holy kiss," as well as not being allowed to share in meetings and the meals for Christian worship and prayer. However, Paul's instruction did not prohibit normal conversation or witnessing to former members. Nor were they barred from attending worship in the temple or the synagogues. Jesus, the apostles and Paul, along with the rest of the Jews, worshipped God both publicly in the temple and synagogues, and privately with small groups in various homes. (Acts 5:42) It was from the private Christian fellowship for worship that sinners were excluded. "Not to be mixing in company with" . . . "not even eating with . . ." Jesus and the apostles were Jews. They lived according to the Jewish lifestyle and customs of their day. Jesus taught in the synogogues; hence, he was called "Rabbi." Matt.26:25; 26:49; Mark 9:5; 11:21; 14:25; John 1:38, 49; 3:2, 26; 4:31; 6:25; 9:2; 11:8 There were two kinds of association for religious worship: 1) public meetings, such as at the temple and in synogogues, which anyone was allowed to attend. 2) private gatherings of the different sects. Christians and Jews participated in both. Christians met in private homes, usually over a special meal with prayer. A presiding minister hosted the meal using either fellowship funds or personal funds. (Acts 20:20; see the footnote in older editions of the NWT) Now one scripture I would like you to consider for even Paul counseled against abandoning those separated from the congregation: your part, brothers, do not give up in doing right. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked, stop associating with him, that he may become ashamed. AND YET DO NOT BE CONSIDERING HIJ AS AN ENEMY,BUT CONTINUE ADMONISHING HIM AS A BROTHER.--2Thes.3:13-15 NWT
KL	Wednesday, April 28, 2004 @ 6:03 PM
Update on my case The first court date is set for Monday, May 3. It is what is known as the "Case Management Conference," which is a routine conference in which the parties inform the court of the status of the case. The WTBS has filed two motions and a demurrer which are scheduled to be heard June 22, 2004. As far as I know, the molestor, A.W. "Red" Harriman has not filed an answer yet but did just recently obtain an attorney. I will keep you all posted. And as far as all this disfellowshipping talk, what the heck is all that about? This is not the Disfellowshipped Lambs website, so how about we keep to the topic? All of you who want to debate df'ing should start your own website and leave us molest victims alone. Sure, one issue of this whole deal is disfellowshipping, but you people are taking it to the extreme. Let's just talk about the problem at hand, eh?
kb	Wednesday, April 28, 2004 @ 6:29 PM
Has it occurred to everyone that Jehovah CANNOT be found in any Kingdom Hall, Assembly Hall or any other Hall? His presence nor His Holy Spirit can be found there! God DOES NOT and CANNOT involve Himself with sexual perversions, lies, theft, extortion, abuse of every kind. The bible says that we (our conduct) must be holy because He (God) is holy. God is Holy. It goes against His own legal system to link Himself and/or put up with any human garbage that people like the Governing Body and their cronies come up with. The old cliche' that is always used as a way to brush things under the rug such as: "Just wait on Jehovah" "Jehovah will straighten the matter out in his own due time" is a bunch of garbage!!! Jehovah has already begun straighten all of those perverts and their buddies that condone them, out!! It started with this website. Knowledge is POWER!!
P	Wednesday, April 28, 2004 @ 7:29 PM
Some Final Comments Having looked further into your website I notice that all the accusations are presented in a clear easy-to-read manner - and yet the pages that actually set out how the Watchtower Child Protection Policy works are hidden at the ends of articles and are presented in a long jumbled mess of text. I would encourage all to view this page that actually appears on this silentlambs website but, conveniently, has very little attention drawn to it: http://www.silentlambs.org/howpolicywork.htm I also recommend viewing the videos that appear at: http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm I also would like to ask how anyone can say that the policy is not a thorough one that covers all legal and scriptural basis after reading the body of material that appears on your very own website at: http://www.silentlambs.org/education/MediaCoveruppage.cfm And how can any of the vast amount of material on the subject presented by the Society be classed as a cover-up? You claim that the keeping of a list proves that they are covering up the actions of paedophiles - surely any logical thinker can see that this list is kept only so that action CAN be taken as soon as the 2nd accusation/witness is made. If their aim was to cover up the situation then, rather than keep a record of it, they would simply forget about it. If this list is really so dangerous. Why are you compiling your own list from this very website: http://www.silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/pinpoint.cf m I would suggest that you enjoy being the leader of your own following, you enjoy the media attention, the marches, the merchandise and t-shirts, and you will therefore continue to lead this movement regardless of the weight of evidence that stands against you. As has been repeatedly stated - the organization has not denied that abuse has occurred, mistakes have been made and cases mishandled - but this has been on the part of a number of individuals and the organization strenuously deny that it is a fault of their policy which has always been one step ahead of the rest of world society. 20 years ago NO major religion, or secular organization had such comprehensive policies to handle child abuse as they do now, because it was an unheard of, misunderstood situation. Nobody knew how to handle it. And yet, even then, the organization were printing Awake! articles helping us to understand how we could protect our children. ------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- -silentlambs reply-Typical JW misinformation the links you show are on the home page of the website clearly listed with the mountains of evidence that show PR spokesman and WT attorneys providing misinformation to the public. Your sweeping statement of the great policy of the organization is a pile of you know what. The database does not have the names of one witness accused child molesters, you do not know how the database works if you read the home page of the website you would clearly understand that. Funny how you found so may others things but could not find that?? Finally the Pinpoint a pedophile survey has resulted in many child molesters being reported to police a far cry from what has been reported of the 23,720+ child molesters in the JW database. You do not seek truth you simply try to misdirect those that read the guestbook, could you be a troll?
NC	Thursday, April 29, 2004 @ 5:52 AM
To P After reading your recent entry in the Guestbook I couldn't help feeling that you have got it all wrong somehow. In the Spring of 2002 (in Australia that is) the news of the "leave it to Jehovah" policy surfaced here in the form of "Silent Witnesses" a TV program exposing child sex abuse scandals. My husband and I decided to find out more information. After scanning the net and investigating news reports we began to learn of the Dateline program in the US, the scandal in the UK and the march that Silentlambs organised through the streets of New York and present their case to the Governing Body. The Governing Body refused to speak to them which stated a hard and cold message to me of how they really felt about the abuse of pedophile victims which had taken place under their own jurisdiction. If you had been aware of what was really happening at that time, that is, been aware of the truth and not been listening to the white-washed version given by the Watchtower Society you never could have said what you did about Bill Bowen. When he knew about the cover-up he tried to do something about it. Taking on the imposing Watchtower Society must have taken a tremendous amount of courage. What you said about him is not correct. I would suggest that you educate yourself on the history of Silentlambs before you criticise him anymore.
NN	Thursday, April 29, 2004 @ 7:32 AM
To P You said that you've examined this internet sight but - convenently for you - you've managed to miss for example my last comment. Don't even imagine that anyone today can succeed in dragging a paper with someting scrabbled on it in order to be excused from what the really are doing. The former USSR had a lot of good laws, that they didn't care to honor. And it the same with the Wachtower. It is exactly as Jesus said: Don't believe their words, believe their deeds!
AK	Thursday, April 29, 2004 @ 10:35 AM
Does the Watchtower Society engage in 'Coverups'? To those who doubt and question the Society's propensity to engage in active 'coverups' for it's own interest, consider these facts: Have you ever been told what this organization, selected as we have been told as "God's Organization", printed, believed, taught and insisted was God's view in the early days of it's 'modern day' existence? And by the way, all of the points I make can be verified absolutely in the pages of the organizations' own publications. But unless you are ninety or a hundred years old, you have never seen them. They have been ignored and pushed into the archives, and until the onset of the digital revolution and the internet, you had no access to them. Here are just a few; WTBTS had stated repeatedly that the following years represented significant fulfillment of prophecy; 1780 - Matthew 24:29 fulfilled; 1798, 1799 - start of the last days, beginning of the time of the end; 1829 - start of the final 'separating work'; 1833 - fulfillment of Matthew 24:29 (again?); 1840 - the 'final sounding of the 7th trumpet'; 1846 - end of 70 weeks of years; 1872 - 6000 years of man's history complete; 1874 - start of the 40 year harvest; 1874 - the year of the Lord's return had begun; 1874 - Armageddon has started; 1874 - marked by the measure of an inside passage of a pyramid; 1875 - ressurection of the annointed started; 1877 - have entered the 'great tribulation'; 1878 - Russell identified as 'the faithful servant'; 1878 - start of the ressurection of the annointed 'saints'; 1878 - end of Isreal's favor with God (based on yet another measure of a pyramid); 1881 - the churches lose favor with God; 1880 - 'this generation', spoken of by Christ, ended; 1880 - Jews restored to Palastine, 144,000 converted to truth; 1881 - end of ressurection of the annointed; 1886 - destructive angels assembled, Armageddon has commenced; 1898 - WTBTS says that the saints will be composed of the supreme white race; 1900 - the call for preachers is not open to 'colored brethren'(Zion's Watchtower April 15,1900);1900 thru 1904 - many comments made derogatory to blacks, asians, ect. Elevating whites as chosen; 1910-1912 - great 'time of trouble' will begin (Great tribulation); 1914 - end of gentile times, annointed have been ressurected, world about to end before the year is over; 1914 - marked by 115 years since 1799; 1914 - Watchtower did not allow 'coloreds' to share seating with whites at photo drama presentations; 1914 - marked by measuring pyramids; 1915 - end of gentile times; 1917 - Watchtower announces that the war in Eupope is the start of Armageddon; 1920 - Wt announces that Jesus will use drugs injected intravenously to cure mankind; 1920 - all the nations will be destroyed in the fall of that year; 1925 - the faithful men of old will be walking among us now even as the old world still exists. These examples are literally just the tip of the iceburg. We have been told that this is the organization that Our Lord selected, since they were dispensing truth, while others did not! The organization could have told you about all these matters and more, how each prophetic understanding was dead wrong. Those misinterpretations of prophecy continue right up to this day - and once they are clearly wrong, the Society just drops the matter without mention, shuttles the incorrect understanding to the archives, and continues to tell us that God must be with us, for look how we understand matters scriptural in a way that no other religion does! That part has proven true - for we have never gotten a single one correct. Since we as witnesses, claim to be 'lovers of truth', why does the organization not publish a compilation of the failed 'prophetic understandings' of the past? This is, as the organisation calls such things, 'a sin of omission',i.e.; a coverup. This is a mark of the past in this organization, that will not work on this matter of child rape! For those of us who truly love the 'truth', will not stand for this! I issue a call to my former religious leaders in New York; STAND UP AND TELL US THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH!! Lies, substituted as truth, cannot stand the test of time, or the test of the intelligent mind. WTBTS- if you really stand for truth and justice, protect these children from rape and molestation! Perhaps you could go back and read Russell's books on phrenology (study of the shape of the skull to determine a person's ability to serve God correctly, also a major teaching of the WTBTS in the early 1900's)to find a way to root out this problem. That might better fit the history of this organization than would using common sense and Biblical morality to achieve such worthy goals!!!! May the God of truth look out for the interests of the innocent. May he bless those who work toward that end, including Silentlambs!!
ilidio	Thursday, April 29, 2004 @ 5:16 PM
To: AK AK, you left me speechless. In just a few words you have spoken volumes. Let see what the JW pals have to say about it? Dont be surprised if you hear the New Light story. he he he.
DS	Friday, April 30, 2004 @ 3:53 AM
I had no idea I didn't realise that this happened in any other congregations other than the one I grew up in. We had 2 abusers that I know of in a congregation of around 30 Witnesses in a small country congregation and it wasn't until after I left that it came out that one had abused over 25 kids, starting at 7 years of age after he was abused by his uncle, until he was caught in his early 20's.He went to jail as one of the parents went to the police.Since he got out he has gone back to meetings in another congregation in another state.He wasn't disfellowshiped as he was repentant. Anyway thanks for opening my eyes that it goes on elsewhere.------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-could you please contact us at info@silentlambs.org
DEC	Friday, April 30, 2004 @ 11:33 AM
to AK Well said! If the average brother and sister had the courage to do a little research into the foundation of the organization and see for themselves the past track record of the WTBTS, they would be stunned. If a 'truth' has to be changed, how could it ever have been the truth to begin with. If Jehovah has always had his organization upon the earth to feed the sheep at the proper time, what organization existed to feed Charles Russell? Surely there would be some historical record somewhere to document that an organization existed.
MA	Friday, April 30, 2004 @ 12:00 PM
expel Clearly, Paul did instruct Christians to expel from the congregation's fellowship any person who was purposely practicing willful sin. I think we are in total agreement but for this one comment. The word expelling is clearly used in the Greek scriptures and was practised by the sect of the Pharisees to persecute Christians. If Paul meant expelling should be practised by Christians Im sure he would have said so. To illustrate: I could say to someone its safe to get in a car with a licensed driver but its not safe to go with an unlicensed driver. I am not disagreeing with the car licensing laws in most countries but a licence is given or taken away arbitrarily by someone else. If on the other hand I say to you only get in the car with someone safe then it is YOUR decision using YOUR intelligence and discernment. Mat 18:17 says to take a matter to the congregation (as opposed to the old boys club) similar to what happened in Corinthians (Paul wrote to the congregation, it says so at the beginning). It may be wise to follow the example of those taking the lead as was the case of the Corinthians following Pauls example. Romans 14:12 does remind us though we will each render an account (Gal 6:5). I dont think these words in Proverbs 2 where inspired to encourage us to rely on others to think for us 10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness. I hope I didnt dis you ilidio because I do enjoy your comments.
ilidio	Saturday, May 1, 2004 @ 9:45 AM
To: MA Ma, I was merely trying to make the point that the shunning done by the JW is totally applied to the wrong people most of the times. Who are the people who are willfully practicing willful sin? The ones who depart in good stand like myself, just because I could no longer be part of such two-facedness? Really, which sin did I put into practice? On the other hand the offender is still going to the congregation and viewed as a good Christian. So, who do you think should be shunned, me or the other person???? In my case the person that is still going to the congregation should be the one shunned not me or my wife! The person was counseled many times but because repented many times was forgiven all the time (well because cried a good tune, was silent reproved) but that was it. Is God so blind to not see what is going on? This is why I get so mad, all these injustices made in the name of Jehovah. I have very strong opinions when it comes to abuse. Than you go on to mention (((((((( Proverbs 2 where inspired to encourage us to rely on others to think for us 10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness)))))))))) Who are you applying this scripture to, myself or the JWs. Can you please clear that point???
ilidio	Saturday, May 1, 2004 @ 11:10 AM
To: MA Ma, I was merely trying to make the point that the shunning done by the JW is totally applied to the wrong people most of the times. Who are the people who are willfully practicing willful sin? The ones who depart in good stand like myself, just because I could no longer be part of such two-facedness? Really, which sin did I put into practice? On the other hand the offender is still going to the congregation and viewed as a good Christian. So, who do you think should be shunned, me or the other person???? In my case the person that is still going to the congregation should be the one shunned not me or my wife! The person was counseled many times but because repented many times was forgiven all the time (well because cried a good tune, was silent reproved) but that was it. Is God so blind to not see what is going on? This is why I get so mad, all these injustices made in the name of Jehovah. I have very strong opinions when it comes to abuse. Than you go on to mention (((((((( Proverbs 2 where inspired to encourage us to rely on others to think for us 10 When wisdom enters into your heart and knowledge itself becomes pleasant to your very soul, 11 thinking ability itself will keep guard over you, discernment itself will safeguard you, 12 to deliver you from the bad way, from the man speaking perverse things, 13 from those leaving the paths of uprightness to walk in the ways of darkness, 14 from those who are rejoicing in doing bad, who are joyful in the perverse things of badness)))))))))) Who are you applying this scripture to, myself or the JWs. Can you please clear that point???
RICK B	Saturday, May 1, 2004 @ 9:55 PM
ELDERS SON
Cynthia J	Sunday, May 2, 2004 @ 9:05 AM
People need be able to make choices. How does the Watchtower abuse it's members? Even if they change their stance on children and abuse, the members must endure a lifetime of "council" that is meant to guide them. It is best to just get away from this high control group. "Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end.--1 John 2:17" (Our Kingdom Ministry 5/74 p3) This small group at the top love to have the final say in most aspects of it's members lives. They ripped my family to pieces for years with their shunning just because some didn't follow them to the letter.
MA	Sunday, May 2, 2004 @ 9:07 AM
Expelling Clearly Ilidio I am applying this scripture to you Proverbs 18:13 says When anyone is replying to a matter before he hears [it], that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation. After reading your posts over the last few months, you strike me as a man that lives by Proverbs 2. There would be little point in applying this to JW's because as Jesus said in Mathew 7:6 6 Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw YOUR pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip YOU open, which as you have stated (loss of family, friends etc) is what happened to you and many others who have made a stand on the issue of child abuse. Imagine as was practiced by early Christians (Mat 18:17) congregational problems where discussed openly as opposed the arbitrary practise of expulsion (john 16:2, john 9:22 john 12:42). Who do you think the majority (2 Cor 2:6) would shun you or this person? I hope I havent made you feel downhearted by my post because my intention is quite the reverse. I only wish I had the same courage, conviction and support of my wife as you did when I have been faced by similar circumstances. Perhaps John was thinking about people like you when he wrote at the end of 3rd John 9 I wrote something to the congregation, but Di"ot´re"phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not receive anything from us with respect. 10 That is why, if I come, I will call to remembrance his works which he goes on doing, chattering about us with wicked words. Also, not being content with these things, neither does he himself receive the brothers with respect, and those who are wanting to receive them he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation. 11 Beloved one, be an imitator, not of what is bad, but of what is good. He that does good originates with God. He that does bad has not seen God. 12 De"me´tri"us has had witness borne to him by them all and by the truth itself. In fact, we, also, are bearing witness, and you know that the witness we give is true. 13 I had many things to write you, yet I do not wish to go on writing you with ink and pen. 14 But I am hoping to see you directly, and we shall speak face to face. May you have peace. The friends send you their greetings. Give my greetings to the friends by name
DJB	Sunday, May 2, 2004 @ 10:19 PM
Just saying Hello from Canada!!! I haven't been here in awhile...This issue really needs to be dealt with...I can't say this enough...this website serves a very valuable funtion exposing what is REALLY HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD...The Watchtower can't keep on ignoring the victims of sexual abuse...but sad to say it but they will keep right on doing it...So by doing what they are doing they have made themselves part of the problem.......WHICH JEHOVAH WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE!!!! Jehovah sees us no matter where we are we can't fool him...It is always incouraging to see the courage of those who have come forward....Wishing all the best and every success...............DJB
Jacob	Monday, May 3, 2004 @ 2:51 AM
to DEC Truth does not change. It's our understanding that changes. Prov 4:18. As Paul said - we see through a glass darkly 1 Cor 13:12(KJV) How would feel about a doctor who was still using leeches and practising blood letting to cure your ills? It's called progress and our understanding of the Bible progresses with time, just like a scientist's does of the world around him
MA	Monday, May 3, 2004 @ 7:41 AM
To KL Hope things go well with your case. While I agree this is not disfellowshippedlambs.org it is silentlambs.org and disfellowshipping is very relevant to the silence and is peculiar to JW abuse survivors. Here are the reasons I think Ding is pertinent to the JW abuse issue. 1)JW children have a fear of being ded and a JW abuser can use that as leverage to silence the victim. Most abuse victims fell some sort of responsibility for what happened&.. 2)Abuse victims in a desperate cry for help will often do self destructive acts (e.g. smoking, fornication drugs etc) and then will be Ded for wrongdoing&. 3)The JW judicial process can interfere with police investigations. 4)Ones can be Ded for speaking out against JW policies on abuse (e.g. Bill Bowen). 5)Elders that have dealt with an abuser in a judicial capacity are required not to discuss the case with anyone else. 6)Abuse victims that have put there case forward to the elders are required to not discuss the matter with anyone else and if they do they are at risk of being ded. 7)Even if the abuser is ded, if s/he is reinstated they are protected by a cone of silence as per 4 and 5. 8)A JW abuse victim does not have a complete choice as to there healing process. For example an abuse survivor could be ded for posting on Silent Lambs 9)A sympathetic friend or family member could be ded for trying to help an abuse survivor who had been ded for any of the reasons above 10)An abuse survivor is at the risk of losing their spirituality because of believing that JWs practise of disfellowshipping is condoned by Jehovah.
Heidi	Monday, May 3, 2004 @ 12:36 PM
March for Child Abuse Thank you for the terrific update on the recent March in Washington for issues of child abuse, and the participation of Silent Lambs. It's a shame you couldn't also have participated in the Women's March! Keep the news coming - every time I hear something new I thank Benevolent Deities Inc that I am no longer associated with an insular and destructive religious group.
ilidio	Monday, May 3, 2004 @ 2:59 PM
MA MA, you could not discourage me even if you tried, God knows, the JW tried and were not successful!!! I am very grateful that my wife went along with my decision to leave (she was a JW by birth, 30 years, and I for 15 years and very much involved in it) however when it was time for us to leave we stuck together on this idea and never looked back. We have a strong marriage (not saying that you dont.) therefore, when certain decisions need to be made we stick together and go forward. We dont give a rats behind of what people think or say. Its our lives and we do what we want when we want. I dont even care if they ever talk to us again, but I will never stop talking to the witnesses we see on the street. We made a vow and will continue doing it till the day we die.
ilidio	Monday, May 3, 2004 @ 7:47 PM
Jacob Jacob, I agree with you, the truth does not change.Only your understating (jehovahs witnesses understanding that is) changes. Yes, I have heard it before, you call it new light. Would it be possible for an almighty God which you CLAIM TO represent on earth not give you the right light to make you understand it the first, the second or third time..................? Would it be fare to say that the light is dim? In my opinion the light was turned off a long time ago. My wife (a witness for 30 years) disagrees with me. She says that the light was never turned on to start with. You would do well to read: (((((((AK notes, Does the Watchtower Society engage in 'Coverups'? of Thursday, April 29, 2004 @10:35AM)))))) to see how much your truth has changed. For God sake man they make rules as they go along. It's like they are writting a script for a soap opera. you said: {{{{{{ How would feel about a doctor who was still using leeches and practicing blood letting to cure your ills?}}}}}}}}} Man you hit the nail on the head. In a few words you described the entire watchtower (dis) organization. You are so blind that if the truth smacks you on the face you will not know it.
AK	Tuesday, May 4, 2004 @ 9:36 AM
Did any 'elders' take my challenge? In April, as 'abuse awareness month', I issued a challenge to genuinely 'loving shepherds of the flock'. The challenge was to take any opportunity afforded you, i.e; a talk, part on the service meeting, ect, to denounce the organization's cover-up of sexual abuse and it's degredation of the innocent victims of child rape by 'good-standing' members of the congregation. Next, then to let the organization do as they always do to those who dare speak out against wrongs committed in the name of God, most likely disfellowship you! This action would accomplish two massive goals. 1- It would assure, those who have the guts, are identified with those that Jesus stated would 'have love among themselves'. 2- It would inform countless persons within the flock that you consider yourself appointed to protect and shelter, that indeed some do stand up for righteousness in spite of the price! In other words, Love as spoken of by Jesus Christ would become to you an active verb and not a passive noun! It would be interesting to see if any did that? It is interesting to note that most 'elders' would say they are willing to die for anyone in the flock, but my guess is that very few are willing to live and speak for those in the flock that are least able to do so for themselves, the children! Most 'elders' will be happy to sing the praises of ancients like Jeremiah, who stood up in defiance of, yes the Kings (considered to be the annointed of Jehovah, right?), but are unwilling to stand up like he did in favor of what is right and correct worship of God. And though you might argue that Jeremiah was an 'appointed prophet', and you are not, that would not invalidate your responsibility to the flock, which you are currently ignoring by allowing child-rape in the boundaries of 'God's Organized Flock'!! Jeremiah's words sound eerily like the situation today within the organization; "The prophets themselves actually prophecy in falsehood; and as for the priests, they go subduing according to their powers. And my own people have loved it that way; and what will you men do in the finale of it?" (Jeremiah 5:31) So, you elders, leaders and proponents of the good, how will you act? Like the 'prophets' or 'priests' that stood by and watched the evil occuring in the gates?, just 'subduing' with your power those with the intestinal fortitude to stand up for the children? Where will you make a showing '"in the finale of it?", when standing before God and Christ (and not the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) as your judges? Or will you really learn a lesson of love (the verb), and like Jeremiah, Stephen, Paul, state truth and stand for good, no matter the price! Remember, Jehovah will not reward you because you can state 'I was an elder, and I did exactly as the WTBTS told me, but I ignored the command to "Love one another", as commanded by our Lord Jesus himself. Please let me in to your kingdom!' Jesus' answer will be to many; "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness". (Matthew 7:23) Elders - How will he answer you??? Jeff
LK	Tuesday, May 4, 2004 @ 12:04 PM
REPLY TO JACOB You can apply your explanation of the changing of understanding with time of jehovah's witnesses to any religion or belief system. No religion or organization with a particular belief system has ever remained the same, most if not all claim to progress and claim that their understanding of the bible progresses with time, are all religions speaking truth because their understanding is still progressing? The understanding of the bible Jehovah's Witnesses claim to have changes back and forth so much you couldn't call it progression of bible understanding. For it progresses, than the writer's of the watchtower change their mind and regress back to the previous understanding and then light bulb goes off and they then progress to the same understanding they had originally. Read their literature compare the old to knew and every thing in between and you will find that some of the beliefs they had in the 50's were replaced with "new light" in the 60's, and the 60's "New Light" was replaced by "New light" in the 70's, but the 70's "new light is simply a regression to the light of the 50's. So in fact most of the current progression of bible understanding by Jehovah's Witnessess is not new light at all but simply "OLD LIGHT".
Jacob	Tuesday, May 4, 2004 @ 10:16 PM
to ilidio also the Danish newsletter Yes the light was dim even in Paul's day. That is why he used the expression "through a glass darkly" (KJV) in 1 Cor 13:12. As for the Danish reporter - his report has been poorly researched. eg the Oct 8 1993 Awake did not discourage seeking professional counselling, only avoiding those who may practise wrong methods, such as hypnosis. If you go online and check out the story of the McMartin trials you will learn how a social worker actually bullied children into making extraordinary claims about abuse and which were proven false in court. So checking the credentials of professionals is also advisable.
CONDOR	Wednesday, May 5, 2004 @ 1:18 PM
STUPID PIECES OF SH-- You're a piece of f---ing s--t, you stupid f---ing puppet of SATAN, SATAN, SATAN, SATAN, SATAN, STATAN, SATAN!!! You Mother f--ing Daddy's little bitch, you stupid f---ing little cock hound who can't wait to get down on your knees. ---------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- sielntlambs reply-Brother Jaracz is that you?
NN	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 7:05 AM
A perverted organization When I first read Mr Bowens slogan "Pedophile Paradise" for this perverted organization, about a year ago I thought it a bit exaggerated. But the more I learn the more I realise that the problem is even bigger, this organization has developed into an a really nasty oppressive management-by-fear organization. It is the same kind of society like in the Stalin Soviet Union, actually it is quite like it in a lot of ways. For example; for the witnesses as a group it is of no great concern to symbolically "kill" people - without them even understanding it happening or why it happens that they are totaly outside - by shunning them for whatever reason that might serve some influential persons interest. No questions are asked, total loyalty given, there is no possibility what so ever of having a different opinion. And "the loyal" are becoming more and more agressive, toward the "not so very loyal". For myself I'm greately concerned about the honest but naïve persons still in there, people like myself that don't know so much about what is going on or believing that the problems are of a local charactere. Those people are in great danger to become scape goats, I know for years - without understanding it - I was a scape goat myself.
Hanna	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 10:24 AM
Abusive Parents Its sad that some kids have abuseve parents. When parents have an affect on you in so many ways. How they act affects you and your relationship towerds them.They are your parents every thing they do has an effect on you good or bad.
DEC	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 11:58 AM
To Jacob I would hardly compare the progression of science and medicine with increased understanding of the Bible. The world of science and medicine does not claim that God is the source of their understanding . However the WTBTS claims that Jehovah IS the source of ALL new understanding. I would suggest you do a little research. The Watchtower of 4/1/72 pg. 197 makes the bold claim that they are Jehovah's prophet on earth today. I quote : "Of course it is easy to say that this group acts as a prophet of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record" Now of course they no longer make that claim. Why? Because the record DID prove otherwise! They predicted that "1914 would see the end of the kingdoms of this world and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God" In 1917: "the churches will soon cease to be". In 1925 they made this claim: "They are to be resurrected as perfect men and constitute princes or rulers in the earth....Therefore we may CONFIDENTLY expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful worthies of old. Jacob, can you honestly say that this is progression of truth? Or is it the work of men desperately trying to establish their own "kingdom"?
LNA	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 2:12 PM
To Condor Please tell me you are witness, because then you have proven everything about this organization to be true. Too funny, I cant stop crying Im laughing so hard.......
db	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 4:15 PM
opinion or fact??? Well I read THE WORLDWIDE PROBLEM OF CHILD ABUSE AND JEHOVAH WITNESSES, I found it to be very bothersome. So instead of just beleiving everything I read to be true, I ask real Jehovah Witnesses about their policies. Some of the information I read on this website was not true. I am not a Jehovah Witness but I do know that they encourage every alleged abuse to be reported to the proper athorities (the police) as soon as possible. Where is this information on this site being backed up as truth? How am I to believe the information given here is true when all it is...is writing! Where is the actual proof? Why are there no (REAL)books from the Jehovah Witnesses being used to prove these arguments? I will be back to check if there is actual proof or if this information is only based on opinion. -------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------silentlambs reply- See post above for further information. It appears we have yet another person pretending to not be a jw offering sweeping statements without any proof whatsoever. It has been well documented by wt spokesman that they only report in states where is required to do so. On this website we use extensive information from the organization to show what their actual policy is including linking to their website. In addition, numerous documentaries are featured in which interviews with law enforcement along with abuse survivors clearly state abuse was not reported on numerous occasions. It is just a matter of clicking links on the website to find this information; for those reasons you are either an idiot, lazy, or a jw offering misinformation. Whichever you choose they all three insult the thousands of abuse survivors that have spoken truth on these matters.
AK	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 4:16 PM
Good Point - NN! Your analogy of Stalin's Soviet Cleansing is, in a communal sense very applicable here. I know of brother's who have been spiritually executed for just choosing what to read. One brother had never said a word to a soul about having read Ray Franz's books until asked by an elder who suspected as much. He (the brother) asked how he could be expelled for reading material that he never attemped to use to influence anyone else, and was told that the organization could not take a chance that he might speak of it to others. That same tack was taken in PolPot's Cambodian 're-education' that resulted in the death of nearly half the population. Under that regime, anyone who was a threat to the 'new Cambodian truth' was quietly executed. The higher educated, the more dangerous to the state! Even the Catholic Church, which the WTBTS has insulted and attacked head on for it's heirarchy for well over 100 years, rarely excommunicates free-thinkers or even dissidents. The Catholic Church indeed has a lot in it's history that they would prefer to remain unspoken and uninvestigated. But they have survived those who disagree. Cowards like PolPot fear those with ideas that might challenge. The WTBTS seems to have a similar fear. We preach to millions to examine thier religions. But Watchtower leaders fear nothing more than the same kind of examination! PERHAPS they fear that they would not hold up under intelligent critique?? They haven't held up to mine!! Jeff
KL	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 5:19 PM
RE: CONDOR Hey Bill, why do you let these kinds of things even get any play? This guy is obviously a bumbling coward and an idiot, for he did not identify who he is speaking too. I have went through too much for this jerk to be able to spout this kind of stuff towards me. Please remove his post. Thanks.---------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-The post that was put up was the least offensive of others that was posted by the same person. We certainly do not think it was directed toward any individual abuse survivor but more toward the information provided on silentlambs. We think it helps to know that there are those out there that have an intense hatred for silentlambs and the simple message to protect children. We try to put up information on boths sides of the issue to help the public see the anger both ways. It is interesting to note we are attacked equally by certain ones in the xjw movements as well as the uneducated in the JW organization. Both sides need to understand the issue and comprehend doing what is morally and ethically right for children is not based on blindly defending certain men that by their actions show they have little care for children. The xjw's and jw's should both learn to educate themselves on child abuse and excercise their God given character and conscience stand for what is right in the interests of supporting abuse survivors.
KL	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 5:21 PM
RE: Hanna My parents were physically abusive, so I turned to an elder for help, and boy did he ever help - HIMSELF!!!! For four years. Now he is 80 and almost dead, but will soon be in jail anyway for what he did to me. And the WTBS is going down with him. I can't wait!
Fred B	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 5:30 PM
Theocratic Warfare Swearing Condor: What a fine example of Theocratic Warfare Swearing you have provided for us. I must say that tingles went up and down my spine as you sparred with the "puppet of Satan Satan Satan Satan" accompanied all the time by Gods active force. Certainly the New System is just around the corner, and this fine example of christian love, will be an everyday event in that blessed day.
NN	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 5:37 PM
Useles persons They are cowards and useless - the very few exceptions that was good persons are today on their way of becoming extinct - persons calling themselves "elders" and are responsible for many ruined and extinct lives. I have never in my entire life met such unpleasant power mad persons, which I guess depends on me living in a democracy that gives me the right to speak up against anyone. I truly hate these persons because of their incompetent behaviour and lack of propriety, of integrity and of real love and godly devotion. Those men are like small egoistic boys playing the computer game Sims city, they do their decisions not caring a damm about the ruined lifes they cause by their amateuristic incompetence. They do their decisions not on reality or on care for the ones in need but on their fear of provocing those ones in power (be it men or women)locally or higher up in the hierarcy. Lately I had an absurd dialog (per e-mail) with one former elder, a person quite harrassed by the organisation all his life, beginning with his father I guess. He is a person that has learned to bow to those higher up and abuse those below. He is a wreck, and as such ought to know that his precious organisation has no love for losers like himself. But he tried to play "elder" with me and showed me that for those persons the only thing they ar after is to manipulate the one opposing them. Since I know he is a wreck I curbed my anger and answered quite civilly, but he just went on and one trying in his sordid way to use all of the manipulating tricks he ever learned, he even had the indecency to hint at the time when he bullied me (not of course by his own initiative but acted as a tool for a quit weird "jezabel-sister"). The "conversation" with this person was just as weird as sad knowing this very sick man has two kids (of whom one is known to have prefered to stay in hospital instead of returning home) and a wife.
M.A.N.	Thursday, May 6, 2004 @ 6:29 PM
To Condor Hey, the war's over, get new parts for your head.
ilidi	Friday, May 7, 2004 @ 11:25 AM
Jacob Jacob: Yes, the light was dim in Pauls day. That is why he used the expression through a glass darkly (KJV). Your bible on the other hand says: For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror NO WONDER YOU DONT SEE ANYTHING RIGHT. Because you see through a mirror you see everything distorted or up side down!! Get a life man. Stop being such an idiotic hypocrite.
NN	Friday, May 7, 2004 @ 11:33 AM
to db So you asked "real witnesses", did you? Well I was a "real witness" until I got to know how they really acted in abuse situations. If you feel better not believeing the abuse victims, or the ones "not so real former witnesses" that take their stand. Well, do as you please. You are not alone to choose not to believe the victims, but rather the abusers or their supporters. This is a world wide phenomenon. But the truth remains - The "real witnesses" protects abusers, and by supporting them you will eventually have a share in their guilt.
M.A.N.	Friday, May 7, 2004 @ 7:13 PM
To all of the idiots who attack this site, bill, and the cause he has taken up To All JW's who post here: You are all hypocrites and liars. You have been told not to visit sites like this one, because it is "apostate" and many of us here are reproved, DF'd, or DA'd. You are obligated to turn yourselves in harmony with the Bible principle that says if someone knows of serious sin and doesn't report it, he is guilty before God. The WT never said you only had to report OTHER people. You should be reporting yourselves. In other words, there shouldn't be one single post defending the WT, attacking bill, his work, the victims who post here, or attacking even people who read these comments but don't post. I believe bill is DF'd. Are you supposed to have any spiritual discussions or contacts with a DF'd person? I don't think so. And don't say you hope to convert us back from our "sinning ways" or that you want to help us to "see the light" and the errors of our ways. First of all, only elders are supposed to deal with "reclaiming a DF'd person". Secondly, you don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of convincing us we are wrong. Many here are risking being DF'd if they are found out. Thirdly, you have no "light" to offer anyone. You don't have enough for yourselves, so how can you have extra to give us? You wouldn't know what light is if it hit you in the face. If I hear "the light gets brighter" more more time as an excuse for your flip-flops, I'm gonna puke. And that clever analogy the WT uses called "tacking" which is what a sailboat does to reach its course is a crock of shit. (bill, edit out what you must, including this sentence. I don't know what words you allow. Thanks.) When sailors "tack", they KNOW where they are headed for the second they set sail. After looking at 2 or 3 turns, it's plain where they are going to anyone observing the pattern. The WT does not "tack". They don't know how to sail. They don't know where they are going. A better analogy would be to say that the WT pilot and sailors are drunk or asleep and the ship is steaming in circles, drifting with the wind and tide and someday they crash into a port. Finding it's the wrong one, they then claim they stopped only to refuel or use the potty, then get back on the boat and close their eyes and try again. How many innocent ports are going to be smashed before they get to the right one? How many crew members will they kill until they get it right? How many smaller boats will they run over? I won't even go into the jackass medical claims they made over the years, it would take a novel. It is ridiculous enough to read what they believe in and how they've changed their minds, sometimes returning to the very beliefs they DF'd people for having years before they changed. I think they are jealous and pissed that a lowly publisher got it right before they did. Sounds like pride. Now let me see, how did God feel about pride......?? To Condor: What polite, "Christian" language you used. Nice move, bowel. Young people, including children, read this site. Didn't you use "unclean speech"? Now, how did the Bible feel about that.....?? If your IQ went up 40 points, you would still be beneath a cockroach in brains. NN, you made some good points. God is almost out of the picture now with the WT. It's now about power and fame for the senior members. Why this pathological occupstional about "obedience". Didn't mercy and love come before sacrifices and blind obedience? Most elders have no education. And they certainly have no training in cases of abuse. I'm in college studying Psychology, so to those of you who defend obeying the WT at any cost, don't even bother. I was a scapegoat myself, after my daughter was molested and the 3 cowards who made up the Jud. Comm. were more concerned about my keeping 586 and 607 to myself than about keeping my family together. To Jacob: You are right, truth doesn't change, but your understanding of it does. IT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO EVER CHANGE!!! You claim to be God's channel. If God never changes, then do the angels hear him wrong when he gives them a message to deliver to the GB? Did the angel stop off at a bar near Neptune for a quick beer and arrive at Bethel drunk and deliver the message incorrectly? Or did the GB hear the angel wrong? Which is it? You can't have it both ways. You and the WT want to have your cake and eat it too. It doesn't work that way. The WT is the most militant religion I know of when it comes to attacking others for changing their teachings, yet the WT has changed its beliefs more than all the other religions combined. It would almost be comical if it weren't so sad and if it hadn't hurt millions of people. I'll have a Doctorate in Psychology some day. JW's have the highest rate of mental illness of all religions. What does that tell you. Probably nothing, since you are a few chips short of a motherboard anyway. ilidio, I think you did a good job telling Jacob what needed to be said. AK: Loved your comments. You hit it right on the head. Too bad there aren't that many heads in the WT. DEC: You made good points about the past history 100 years ago. I have most of the old books, so I can check. But I can't respect a religion that prints one thing, changes its mind 20 years later, and then says it never printed the first thing. I hold both books in front of me and see the lies myself. How can the WT "sell" a product, the Bible, by using tactics that break half the rules contained in that product?? Maybe Jacob thinks Abraham and Isaac came back in 1925 and didn't like Beth Sarim, so they took a ride on the SS Minnow. Maybe they are on Gilligan's Island? To DB: You are dead wrong about how the elders report abuse. This site has made that clear dozens of times. Either you are blind or stupid. If you are not a JW, then be thankful for that. Go away and find a hobby, like knitting. So the proof given here is only "WRITING"??? What the hell do you call the WT and Awake magazines and all the other books the WT publishes? You see, it works this way. You take letters and make little words with them. Then you take the words (probably small easy ones for you) and make sentences with them. You can use those sentences to convey ideas. This is called "WRITING". It's the same thing the Society uses. Or maybe you are special and one of the GB visits you every week and reads to you. Sounds like a good idea. Since you don't know what writing is, perhaps you can't read?? I intend to write a book myself some day. I will name names, addresses, phone numbers, and tell the whole story. I'll try to get on radio, in the newspapers and maybe on TV. Then you'll have more proof than you can handle. Silent lambs reply was very well put. Maybe you are all three. Idiot, lazy and a JW. Sorry, that's redundant. You ask for proof? Do you ask the WT for proof for all the garbage and lies that it publishes and says on TV? I can't believe some of their spokesmen can keep a straight face when they say their lies. I wonder how well they would do on a lie-detector test?? AK (or signed Jeff, I couldn't tell) made another good point about book reading. Is the WT so afraid of being found out that it's now a sin to read a book against their beliefs at home alone? Read the book, "1984". It's just the same. The elders "couldn't take the chance"? I think it's too late for that. And when other people learn that this type of crap happens, the WT keeps shooting themselves in the foot. It's good that Bill posts some of the comments from the idiots. The WT has a "Questions from readers" section in their magazines, so this site now has a "Remarks from idiots" area. Equal air time, right? NN: More good points about useless persons. Most elders are uneducated, especially in counseling. They hurt children very badly when they try. Since many of them drive trucks, are janitors, or sell vacuum cleaners doot-to-door (maybe that's where the idea came from?), being on a committee or playing counselor with their little leather briefcases is the only time they have the power and prestige they'll never get at work. It's an ego trip for many, plain and simple. Do you really think they play Sims? My daughter has that game, it looks too hard for some elders I know. Well, this is long enough. I wanted to answer some of the brain donors who post here. I know some of you are involved in lawsuits and other things. Due to circumstances, I can't do some of those things. But I am writing a book and if I hear of one more person committing suicide over this, I'm going to the media. I don't fear God or the Devil. As I've said before, sometimes it's hard to figure out who is saying what to whom, based only on the heading. If I've offended any of the good people supporting this work by misunderstanding your opinion, then I'm sorry. If I've offended those who attack Bill, this site, or his work, then good.
ilidio	Friday, May 7, 2004 @ 8:23 PM
Fred B Fred B---yep, the system is just around the corner! I can see it coming, there it comes, and darn you missed it again. Oh well keep waiting! Oh, I see it again! There it comes! And getting closer! Sxxt, you missed it again. Oh well, keep dreaming bozo. He he he. Wake up man you are having a another dream, or should I say a nightmare?
Margaret	Saturday, May 8, 2004 @ 1:18 AM
Condor and KL I agree with KL that Condor could be an abuser - not necessarily the one who abused her, and that posting such comments would be upsetting. KL's case is going to trial and the last thing she needs is abuse from another abuser. BTW - how do you know that Condor is a JW? It could be someone else who is being prosecuted or is even in jail ( prisoners are allowed computers and Internet access) and who wants to upset victims. Please sl - show you care - do the right thing and delete such posts. The lambs are crying.
	Sunday, May 9, 2004 @ 6:06 PM
To Condor Condor, whom exactly are you addressing in your post? Silentlambs? An abuser? Are you a Jehovah's Witness addressing Silentlambs? If so, how far do you think you are going to get using such abhorrent language and horrible name calling? I thought that Christians are taught through the Bible to love their enemies. You didn't do such a good job of showing that love. Your post displayed only the ranting and raving of someone who is disturbed. By the way, if you have been the victim of abuse, and you are filled with rage, then you need professional help. That rage is understandable. You were violated. Terribly, tragically violalted. Your very humanity was violated. However, no matter how you look at it, no matter what provoked you to send such a post, you come across as someone who needs professional help. Please get help.
	Sunday, May 9, 2004 @ 6:11 PM
To M.A.N. I think it sounds like you have enough right now to go to the media with! If you are as eloquent in speech as you are in writing, wow, you could really say a mouthful! Go, M.A.N.!!!
Margaret	Sunday, May 9, 2004 @ 9:40 PM
to M.A.N. Your abusive post does not deserve a response. But to clear up one thing. A person only becomes an apostate if he/she agrees with the ideas of an apostate. In any case, as you say man, not only df people operate or post on this site and no one refuses to help others just because there may be one apostate or df person in their midst. eg I often called on a sister whose husband is df. If he answered the door I asked to see his wife. He would often stay in the living room with us. Should I not have visited her just because of her df husband? That would be unkind - to her.
ilidio	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 6:16 AM
To: Margaret Margaret, are you so unintelligent not to understand what you just wrote? First of all, can you tell me what the word apostate means? According to the dictionary it says :::(((((( Apostate: One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.))))))) Do you see a problem with anyone doing that? If you are not a JW by birth (which most arent) that means you left some other religions faith to join the JW and therefore you should be also labeled as an APOSTATE, as you abandoned your previous religious faith to join your current one! Than, you go on to say that MANS abusive post does not deserve a response, yet you respond to it. What does that make you? A BIG HYPOCRITE AMONG THE AMONG THE OTHER 4,000.000 or is that 6,000.00? Just like the weeds in my garden you multiply so fast that is hard to keep track. To Man, dont let idiots like Margaret discourage you, you are my hero man. Please let those intelligent posts come. It is very refreshing for the soul to have you posting in here. We know that Margaret wont like it, but oh well, we know that the TRUTH HURTS. Keep them coming.
RWB	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 7:12 AM
You know why you do it? Witness's know they aren't suppose to visit this site or other sites like it. So what they do is attack the site while visiting ... BUT... they search the site. That's okay!! What ever excuse they have to generate in their own minds to justify visiting this site is okay. Just keep reading and keep praying with sincerity... Surprises are in store for those with sincere honest hearts.
M.A.N.	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 8:38 AM
To Margaret My post was not abusive, it told the truth. If you don't like it or believe what I said, ask the members who post here and see what they say. Secondly, if my post doesn't deserve a response, why did you make one? You are wrong about the definition of "apostate". The dictionary says, "One who has abandoned one's religious faith, political party, one's priciples, or one's cause." It says nothing about agreeing with any other person, including other "apostates". The WT brands people as "apostate" if they do not agree with WT beliefs. Even if WT beliefs are not in harmony with the Bible, and I choose the Bible, they call me an apostate because I don't agree with them. Since they think they are God's mouthpiece, they equate God with the WT. In the eyes of the WT, they and God are the same. I disagree. The fact that others disagree with the WT doesn't mean we are fellow apostates. I might disagree with other apostates who quit being JW's. But the WT lumps all of us in the same category. Their mistake. Finally, you are wrong about the DF situation. You are allowed to visit a sister whose husband is DF'd. He's probably allowed to greet you at the door as you ask to see his wife. But you are not to say anything to him after he lets you in the house. If he chooses to sit in his own living room while you and his wife talk, that's his business, it's his home. But if you talk with him, you are breaking the rules. I'll leave it at that. Others here or perhaps SL can verify this information. It is the latest I have. If I'm wrong about what you can say to the husband, such as "hi" or "nice weather", then I'm wrong and I apologize. But I don't believe the current WT rules allow you much leeway in having anything to do with him. Anyone care to elaborate? Thank you. One last point. Yes, it would be unkind to her not to visit her. But how unkind is it for abused children to be ignored and spend decades in therapy? How unkind is it when some of them commit suicide? How unkind is it when young people in their 20's who are DF'd, and their own parents won't speak with them, nor will any of their friends, go and commit suicide because they feel lost and alone? How unkind is it for a mother not to speak with her own child who she carried and raised? How unkind is it for older people who are DF'd to find their own children, who they sacrificed so much for, won't speak with them or let them see their grandchildren? In the words of Ray Franz: "What must it mean to a mother who has seen a baby daughter come forth from her own body, has nursed that baby, cared for it through illness, has trained the young girl through the formative years of life, living her problems with her, feeling her disappointments and sadnesses as if they were her own, shedding tears along with her tears-what must it mean to that mother to have her daughter, now an adult, suddenly reject her and do so simply because her mother sought to be true to her conscience and to God?" I don't know if you are married or a parent, but you better think about this. It may happen to you someday. My own daughter, from the age of nine years old to thirteen, was molested by a brother for 4 years. The elders knew he was a child molester and they knew he was visiting own home. Yet they told us nothing. We have spent over $50,000 in medical expenses for the family. My wife and daughter left me because I objected to the WT and its policies. Everyone is in therapy. My child has attempted suicide and is very ill. If she dies, I will personally order the execution of the elders who knew. They will die if I have to pull the trigger myself. (Yes, I'm Sicilian, you figure it out.) I don't blame my wife for leaving, she thought she was serving God. She is brain-washed, but I can't fix that. We all have our own reasons for joining this cult and/or quitting it. I also don't know your age or IQ but it is not sufficient to do battle with the real truth about the WT or the people here who know the real facts, not the BS you are given by the WT. There are people here who can back up everything I've said. To all who have suffered and agree with this post, please say something. This BS from the WTS being handed out by trolls who shouldn't be here needs to be corrected. Thank you.
DEH	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 12:12 PM
Apostate by what definition? Hello, it's been some time since I posted here. Good to see the Guest Book in good health. It is a place where some purge, some discover, some find humility, and some vent their deepest heart felt pain. I have seen healing and hurt at the guest book. If you have an opinion would it not be best stated from a position of LOVE? Whether your a Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Mainstream Fundamentalist or Free Will practicing Christian you stand to gain the most by expressing what is in your mind and upon your heart by using Love. Let's look at this word "Apostate". To a Jehovah's Witness it means all who have left Gods protection and grace. To most who have left the Watchtower that word is a "abusive slander of your character". Many who have left the Watchtower have found real freedom in a "Personal relationship with God" one untattered by a "spiritual system" based on man's rules. They still have a great love for God and Christ, but no longer believe in many of the over 160,000 different spiritual systems of the world that make up organized religion. From birth to our last breath on this earth we are on a journey. Some are granted the gift of enlightenment that this journey includes, a "personal relationship with God and his gift of including you in helping spread his messages of Love and Salvation. If any of you have a differing point of view express it without hate, and without blame. You cant more Bee's (Win more souls) with Honey and Not vinegar (Hate). In Him DEH
NN	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 3:23 PM
To Margareth Well, there is one thing you and other witnesses always seemed to forget: You do not have copyright on what is true and what is not true! Therefore You have no right what so ever to call anyone an "apostate", especially since your own "truth" has changed so very much during your history - and I do not mean the propagandistic version in the so called JV book but the real, unedited history that they never tells you - In reality I guess most witnesses could be labelled as apostates if one would compare their beliefs to the original teachings of Russel. And anyway in protecting abusers you prove yourselves to be apostates from the teachings of the Bible. It was because I did not want to become an apostate to the Bible that I choosed to leave this rotten organisation.
M.A.N.	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 7:08 PM
to ilidio Thanks very much, you made my day. I submitted a post earlier that hasn't been put on the board yet and it has the exact definition of apostate that you quoted. We must have the same dictionary. Fabulous point about a previous religion. I was raised a Catholic, then became an atheist, then an agnostic, then JW, now agnostic. To clear up one point before anyone asks, I was taught in college that an atheist could prove that there was no God, an agnostic isn't sure one way or another because there isn't enough proof. This might be wrong, but that was what the Professor said. Anyway, I'm a Catholic apostate. So the WT should have "found" me when I quit the Catholic Church around the age of 16 or so and DF'd me for being an "apostate". Then I could never have been allowed to walk into a K. Hall at the age of 27 and be greeted, "love bombed", and accepted with open arms. Very good point. Excellent. And yes, Margaret doesn't know very much. I can't resist using my tried and true remark for her, "The proctologist called, they found your head."
M.A.N.	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 8:40 PM
to the anonymous people Some of you have complimented me or said encouraging things and didn't put a name on your post. I just wanted to thank all of you, even though I don't have a nickname or initials to refer to you by. I appreciate the comments. I'm not going anywhere. Not until someone on the GB goes on live TV and apologizes on behalf of the WT. Since that has the same chance of happening as me winning $100 million in the lottery next week, I guess I'll be here for a long time. My family is gone. I'll post also for revenge for their being gone. They're spending time away from me, so I'll spend time on the board. An eye for an eye. Now where did I read that?.....
mp	Monday, May 10, 2004 @ 10:25 PM
to M.A.N. You are so right, considering the true definition of the word apostate, at least 98 percent of JWs are apostate from other religions, but they only know the meaning of the word as taught by the WT. However, it is a commendable thing to have enough courage and good sense to turn away from teachings that have proven over and over again to be untrue. Regarding your comment about the mother having been through all the traumas of raising her children, and then have them reject her, that really hit a note with me. My case was different from that, however, my two children rejected the religion as they were growing up and that was a terrible disappointment to me, but I could never turn my back on my children just because they refused to be good Witnesses. When I finally came to the realization that all the things I had believed all my life, were simply not true, I was very grateful that they never did believe it and so now instead of rejecting me, they are just happy that I have been liberated at last. I have not been disfellowshipped, I just quit being a Witness. If that makes me an apostate, so be it, but I have not lost my faith and love for Jehovah or Jesus. I have a stronger relationship with Them now than I ever did when I was an active Witness.
RWB	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 6:54 AM
Where's the gentleness and respect? As a resent visitor I couldn't help but notice the emotion on this site. Please be aware that people like me want to hear all sides but when you... write a book... as a response it comes across as a filibuster. If you all could show each other some love and keep your answers respectful and readable it would go a long way towards getting at the truth. Just my opinion for what it is worth?
AK	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 7:48 AM
M.A.N.'s Monday Post Yes, all you have stated is true to my best knowledge, and I have been a witness for over 30 years (now we are faded out, but never DF'd). I feel for your pain in the terrible ordeals that your family was put thru. I marvel that these things continue to go on in the 21st Century. I hope that things will improve for you soon. We have seen just how cruel this organization can be in it's so called protectionist mode! My wife and I have lead model lives, mostly molded by the Bible's priciples (that is not to say we are perfect, but we have no blemishes on our conduct to detract from God or the organization for that matter), and yet due to our voicing concerns about the obvious lack of love among those in the congregation, we have been completely cut off by shunning. I mean completely! Witnesses will not speak to us on the street, no one has called at our home in months and months, an elder that was one of my closest friends will not return emails, ect. Rather than attempting to 'save' us, they have boxed us off as if we are wicked. I have heard rumors that I have been labeled an 'apostate', but such charges have never been officially leveled. I have contacted every elder in the congregation at one time or another and asked the reasons, but all I get is a denial that we are being shunned. (The reason is that they must deny it unless we have been officially reprimanded to avoid a lawsuit for slander against the elders -who obviously have given the secret shunning orders.) This sort of 'hateful act' must be very common based on what I have seen here and other places. It is the mark of a paranoid organization. If there are skeletons in the closet (and there are), the organization does not want the closet opened to view! There were two reasons that my dear wife and I had to leave the comfort of 30+ years of 'the truth'. 1- This problem of child abuse, and the obvious ignorance on the part of the GB to address it in any serious way. 2- Actual inspection of just what this organization has taught over the last century, has made it clear that Russell had absolutely nothing right at the time that the organization states that Jesus chose him to be used as the 'faithful servant'. (Actually, these two matters will never be dealt with straight up by the Watchtower organization. Their appoach in both is to say a few soothing words in a WT or a KM that will convince the brothers that things are getting done behind the scenes, tell them to quit worrying about it and let the Mother Ship handle it. OR issue some rewritten history. This stalls any rebellion from within, and gives the local elders ammunition to excecute any who see thru the sham. Also, laying the blame at the feet of the 'apostates' makes any intelligent discussion of the matter within the organization a reason to suspect those individual of apostasy. So if they want to stay in, they shut up!)I ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO THE WTBTS - hold an open conference with reps from SL and SNAP and victims of child-rape from within the organization. No reprissals. Let witnesses and x- witnesses speak openly of this issue and suggested solutions. Recant and reinstate all victims who have been re-victimized due to speaking out in their pain! Form an unbiased and diverse council that will make rec's based on the real life problems that arise from this issue (and not the fantasy land that the Governing Body resides in). For the matter of history of the organization I challenge them as so; release a Watchtower CD that includes all the society pubs back to the founding of the Watchtower magazine. Let the brothers see for themselves if the Lord felt a need to use them due to the 'truth' that they had and no one else did!! Let's see if either of these things will ever happen!!!!! Jeff
ilidio	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 8:00 AM
MAN I think I am both a catholic apostate (went to a seminary in Fatima, Portugal at the age of 10 where I studied to become a catholic priest, after many years realized it was not for me) and a JW apostate as I left both.. JWs do think that they invented the word APOSTATE but they also think that they invented the wheel, so, nothing they say surprises me anymore. MA, you are correct an AGNOSTIC does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one can not know for certain whether or not they exist. ATHEIST, on the other hand is one who denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent being. One thing I can state for a fact, the watchtower ORG has created many atheists, after leaving the JW one sort of loses his/her faith in God.
TM	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 11:23 AM
Watchtower writes too much, listens to little. apostate: n. a person who abandons his religion, party, cause, etc. (Collins English Dictionary) apostate: n. a person who completely forsakes his religion, faith, political party, or principles. (Gage Canadian Dictionary) Here we have the true meanings of "apostate". Sorry Watchtower but it does not mean just a person who left your 120 year old group based in Brookland New York. So why does the Watchtower go to such great lengths to promote this catchword with their own limited meaning? Let's let them answer this question from the June 22, Awake. "Some people insut those who disagree with them by questioning character of motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name- caller's strategy has worked." The article goes on to say: "The Institude for Propaganda Analysis notes that 'bad names have played a tremendously powerful role in the history of the world and in our own individual development. They have ruined reputations,...sent [people] to prison cells, and made men mad enough to enter battle and slaughter their fellowmen'."
TM	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 12:07 PM
Christendom...what does it mean? Another smear word the Watchtower likes to use is Christendom. They present the word as if they are seperate from it. But what does the dictionary say it means?_______ Christendom: 1. Christian countries; the Christian part of the world. 2. all Christians._______So is it safe to say that the Watchtower is not Christian according to them? Yes if you use the true meaning of the word. No if you give the word Christendom a new meaning like they have. I'll trust the distinguished group of linguists for my information vs. some unknown that dreams up Watcthower propaganda in Brooklyn New York.
NN	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 2:47 PM
To RWB The hypochrasy of your adress makes me wonder if you are not a witness. Anyhow I can just answer you that if you do not understand that this is issues that craves a strong language you are free NOT to brows on this site. Actually your kind of person is just too common in society: people who do not want painful and hard-to-deal with issues as abuse to be talked of at all because is it "not very nice". Well I have a surprise for You: Life is not very nice, and never has been! And what this corrupt organization has done against its members - and the true God who's good name they are dragging in the dirt - is just awful and it certainly craves strong language!
DEH	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 4:39 PM
I will shun no one Truth-I am an ex JW of over nine years now. I was properly shunned by all when I left. Today if I see many of the witnesses in a group for their own safety sake and fear they will pretend to shun me but the truth is every single one of them has crossed my path over the last nine years and has spoken to me when they have been by themselves, reminissed, talked about family, and we departed on speaking terms. I disassociated myself from the Watchtower completely, but I will NEVER SHUN anyone no matter what their beliefs. To each who post here, if you want, I will be your friend, so you can say at least with me you are never shunned. In Him DEH
M.A.N.	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 5:47 PM
To RWB I think NN said it very well but I have something to add. I assume you must have me in mind for "writing a book" or "filibustering". So what. I have a lot to say, because a lot was done to my family and I've lost a lot. Can we be nice? Sure, with those who are fair and honest. The WT sneaks who come here (and I say sneak because they are not supposed to be here, if you doubt it, call Bethel and tell them you post here and see what they say) are not interested in the truth about child abuse and how we have suffered. They come here and lie about us and what the Society has done. I won't brag anymore on this site since some were offended, but suffice it to say that you will lose any argument you start with me and/or any other person on this board who knows the facts. I was a JW for over 25 years, a book study conductor, Theo. school counselor, etc. I have read virtually all of the books the WT ever printed. I own a copy of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures. You cannot imagine the pain of seeing your 9 year old daughter violated for 4 years and finally getting the courage to tell her parents, only to see her called a liar and a whore by other JW's at the hall. I have a temper, I'm the first to admit it. I don't give a damn about the law or morality. This experience made me believe in no god. I'm now an agnostic again and I'll damn well stay there for the rest of my life. There are others here who just concentrate on Jehovah and Jesus, there are some who quit all spiritual activity. It's not my place to judge them, the issue is not what they believe in. The issue is the WT's handling of child abuse. Where the hell are your brains?? Don't you read anything on this site??? There are at least 2 dozen people alive today because I didn't want to go to jail and deprive my child of a father. When a person gets that angry, you better believe what NN told you that there is emotion involved here. My child lost her innocence, her little girl dreams, her princess teen years and is now a mentally ill 18 year old and could die from her physical problems due to the abuse. This is not kindergarten stuff we're playing with. I hope Europe throws the WT out on its ass. And I hope this country does the same. They are a criminal organization and I wish the planes had missed the twin towers and hit Bethel.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 6:39 PM
To RWB Since you don't like "books", I'll make several small posts. You mentioned "if we could show each other love". We do show each other love, each other being those who have suffered at the hands of the WT. If you or anyone else is here to defend the WT, then you are not a part of "we", or "each other". "We" don't like people making stupid comments. I think most of the answers here are respectful, in fact some are more respectful than some of the idiots who post here deserve to receive. Many are not here for "answers", they are here to call us names and say we are liars and against God. I think it takes a hell of a lot of courage to make an emotional break with a religion that you've given your soul, heart, mind, time, effort, and MONEY to for decades, only to find out they are frauds and deny it when you prove it. And then we have to suffer being DF'd for telling the truth. I thought the WT's main bitch was "The Truth"? They wouldn't recognize the truth if it kicked them in the ass. Actually, that would be the nearest things would come to making contact with their brains. I just read the letter about Denmark. That's enough to make me puke. You want gentleness? For whom, may I ask? For the abusers?? For the idiots who come here and spread lies about the WT being so holy to the point that their posts have to be deleted by SL for being misleading to the point of being slander against US? WE are telling the truth. The WT is not. Last point. You want "readable"? What post can't you "read"? You seem to speak English, so what's your problem?? NN said it very well. Life is not nice. The WT's lies are not "nice". The abusers are not "nice". If you want "nice", go turn on your TV and watch Bert and Ernie on Sesame Street.
AK	Tuesday, May 11, 2004 @ 9:03 PM
TM's Comment Right On! You hit it right on the head! The June Wt article you sight says it all. I find it interesting that the Society seems so interested in the subject to start with! Wonder why? Also interesting that they are so familiar with an organization named 'The Organization for Propaganda Analysis'! How appropriate!!!!!! Jeff
AK	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 8:48 AM
Further on TK's observations If any doubt that this 'labeling' is a deeply seated tactic of the WTBTS, just think of all the labels we have been taught over the years, then think of the message that those labels bring to your mind without thinking about them; (Really, we have been taught to judge everyone in this way and just hide the word 'judging' by it!) ; Elders; Ministerial Servants; Pioneers; Bethelites; Circuit overseers; District Overseers; Missionary; Special Pioneer; Annointed; Other sheep; worldly; apostate; religious; church member; Christendom; Babylon the Great; clergy; publisher; inactive; irregular; attends the memorial; weak; wicked; materialistic; sheep; goatlike one; politician; disfellowshipped person; disassociated one; former witness; former elder ect; vis a vis!!! We have been turned into self-righteous judgementalist, and don't even know it! That is a pretty good job of progaganda ! Jeff
ZX	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 11:27 AM
MAN You say ", was a JW for over 25 years, a book study conductor, Theo. school counselor, etc. I have read virtually all of the books the WT ever printed. I own a copy of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures" This was very funny, perhaps we are twins, I was also the same as you, I have also lived with newledege about bad things as I new some beloved have done, and when I finally told this, what happend well the sinner have to step down fron position as elder,nothing more,I have to compare this with the big sin that is to sleep over in a apartment together with another person not of the same sex, full restrictions was the punishment, can you understand this nightmare, and what can I say to the young one that has to deal widh this hard punishment, despite he have done nothing wrong, it dont matter say the elders, you was there and it is enough, but when it comes to sex abuse suddenly you must have two independent wittneses to judge, why must you not have the same in the other example i gave, unbelieveable. This have made me very angry and confused,I can not understand why the society are so tuff to young ones and so easy to the elders that do very nasty things,thanks for this site so we can tell whats happend among our religion. I have been JW for over 40 years and elder for over 20, but this is more than I can take. Hope Jehovah will clean up the bad influens as have come in to the top at least it is the only way out as I see it.
Cindi	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 11:38 AM
Even More Pain The day I say thank you to silentlambs is the same day I'll say thank you to the person who raped me.
NN	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 11:52 AM
To DEH Well isn't that typical! But your comment makes me a bit worried. You talk as if what the witnesses do actually matters, when it don't. You must realize that they have no right what so ever to shun anyone!!!! (and actually the shunning procedure is just a way of keeping folks in and controled) I think one should be very discerning about allowing that behavior from witnesses. If it is like You want to keep contact with some of them because you care - then it is ok. But if it is only something that you do to comply with their rules and caracteristic hypocritical behaviour then it is totaly wrong! There are as I have come to understand a lot of witnesses that have two sets of behaviour and conscience, like a lot of other religious, and it is not totaly impossible that those people that shun you are in fact much worser sinner than you have ever been, or will be. So You mind not to trample on your own integrity just to let them play their little game!
SR	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 1:35 PM
You all are stupid! If you all were really Jehovah's Witnesses to begin with you would know what you all are doing is wrong. This world has put all of this stupid stuff in you head and made you think this. I just hope you all know how bad you all are hurting Jehovah and he will pay you all back. People like you all should think about the message you all are send to other people. But Jehovah will have the last word in this arguement.
M.A.N.	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 3:57 PM
To ZX My best friend, a brother, who taught me much of what I now know about being a computer network engineer specialist, was in the same situation. (We must be twins.) He was engaged to a women after his third wife left him. His first died, I think, the second left him the day he first went out in service, the third committed adultery with an old boyfriend. He visited her alone in her apartment. That probably wouldn't look good during the day, but wouldn't be a crime. But he made the mistake of sitting in the living room talking on the couch until 5 am in the morning. They were in love and just sat and talked. I KNOW they did nothing, I never saw a man love Jehovah so much. The congregation put him on reproof, he was removed from being a Ministerial Servant and book study conductor, and most of the congregation wouldn't speak to him and treated him like garbage. He is 6 feet 4 inches and is an arm wrestling champion and could have crushed any of them, but he is a gentle giant. He tried to work with the elders, and one sanctimonious jackass told him right to his face, "I see no sign of any spiritual value in you at all." He left the hall in tears. He was never used again and a year later when his mother died and he inherited a good amount of money, he moved from the East Coast here all the way to Hawaii. I'm a Psychology major and plan to be a therapist and get my Doctorate. This poor man is still emotionally scarred from what happened. What does it say when people have to move to other halls because certain congregations are just a bunch of a**holes?? I've seen congregations all think alike, following the lead of a few bullying elders who need to be taken outside and beaten. Sorry, but I just read the new letter from Denmark. I swear, I bet the Danish people are ready to fire bomb kingdom halls. You made an excellent point that I hadn't thought about. If both this brother and his wife-to-be said they didn't do anything, then where are the two witnesses needed to condemn them?? NO ONE witnessed any improper conduct, because there wasn't any. Yet one witness (the victim) is not enough to go after a child abuser. Does anyone else see that crap reasoning here?? I've seen elders cover for each other all the time. It's like an elite group of criminals. I want no part of it. I've already drafted a DA letter and one phrase I used was that "I didn't want to sully (or dirty) my good name by being associated with people who are guilty of the crimes that you are." It's pretty sad when a person dirties his name if he tries to serve god. I thought serving god was supposed to make your name better. What hypocrites!!
M.A.N.	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 3:58 PM
To Cindi Can you please clarify your meaning? Thank you.
DEH	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 4:01 PM
Hopefully Love will WIN out! I speak to any JWs who talk to me out of a position of LOVE. I hope that when they see that my life is prospering, and I am happy, and I am growing and thriving, and the world is NOT falling apart around me that obviously God has not abandoned me then perhaps the grass will "be in their eyes greener away from the WT". It is the same way I would treat anyone I communicate with. It is a common respect I show in doing to all the way I would wish to be treated. It is "loving" your neighbor even when it may not be deserved. It is speaking a kind word even in the face of wrath. While I like everyone else is far from perfect I will take a first step to speak in kindness. It doesnt matter to me what race, religion, creed, or color you are. God made you and that is good enough for me. Love is that "universal" language that most recognize and it moves more mountains than not. In Him DEH
M.A.N.	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 4:14 PM
To SR Who exactly are you calling "stupid"? I hope you don't mean the people here who support this good work and want to help abused people. Why don't you clarify your position? And please don't say "you all" anymore, ok? Thanks.
JJ	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 5:02 PM
CAN A JW PLEASE ANSWER THIS? SR, MAYBE YOU CAN ANSWER THIS FOR ME! WHY IS IT OK FOR JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES TO PROSELYTIZE FROM DOOR TO DOOR AND SHOUT FROM THE ROOF TOPS THEIR OPINION ON ALL THE OTHER RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD (NAMELY THAT ALL RELIGIONS ARE FALSE AND HAVE EVIL INTENT TO MISLEAD THE NATIONS AND ARE A TOOL OF SATAN), BUT WHEN A PERSON SAYS THAT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE WRONG OR A TOOL OF SATAN AND FALSE, DO YOU GUYS (JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES) GET SO OFFENDED? WHY IS IT OK FOR YOU JW'S TO USE THE CATHOLIC CHILD MOLESTING SCANDAL AS A TOOL IN YOUR MINISTRY AND SUPPORT FOR YOU OPINONS ON THE HIPOCRASY OF OTHER RELIGIONS, BUT IT IS NOT OK FOR SILENTLAMBS TO USE THE WELL DOCUMENTED JW CHILD MOLESTING SCANDAL TO ACCOMPLISH THEIR GOAL OF PROTECTING CHILDREN? THE TRUTH HURTS, KARMA, WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND! ANSWER, PLEASE, I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR A JW'S PERSPECTIVE!
JJ	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 5:17 PM
TO ALL THOSE WHO ARN'T OR HAVE NEVER BEEN A BAPTISED JW! SR'S COMMENTS ARE JUST A FRACTION OF THE HATE AND ILL-WILL JW'S DIRECT TOWARDS ANYONE WHO GOES AGAINST OR DISAGREES WITH ANY WATCHTOWER TEACHING OR AUTHORITY IN THEIR ORGANIZATION? THIS IS JUST A FRACTION OF THE SOCIALISTIC PRESSURES AND HATE THAT JW'S DIRECT TO SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN ABUSED WITH IN THE JW ORGANIZATION THAT STANDS UP FOR THEMSELVES AGAINST THE WATCHTOWER AND ELDER AUTHORITY. THANK YOU SILENTLAMBS FOR ALLOWING SOME OF THESE OFFENSIVE COMMENTS BY JW'S TO POST TO FURTHER THE PROTECTION OF CHILDREN BY ALLOWING JW'S TO SHOW THEIR TRUE COLORS WHEN PEOPLE ARE HURT AND ABUSED IN THE JW RELIGION.
Cheri Romero	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 6:27 PM
To M.A.N. I have read your posts since you first started posting them and today I read your most recent ones. Let me say that you have the same kind of anger that I have for the Organization. You have the same emotion, the same level of pain and even some of the same words. I too always say that I so wish those planes had just flown a little distance away and slammed into the WBTS. I have a sister that is mentally ill to the point that she does not remember any of her family including her kids. She has mutiple personalitys and she is a paranoid sckitz???? (cant spell it). She wanders the streets of Lake Tahoe talking to trees and rocking back and forth. All of this is a direct result of her abuse as a child (from JW elder). I have 4 siblings and ALL of us were victims. Not all of us were survivors though. I have 27 nieces and nephews and at least half of them were victims and only one in the whole damned family went to the police. That would be me. I went at the age of 14 to the elders to tell them about my step-father molesting me and about my mother beating me. They didnt believe me. So I went to a teacher at school. She took me to the police. I was DF at 14 for being sexually molested by my step-father and for "bringing reproach on the name of Jehovah". I would make it my life's mission to combat this Organization if I had the funds to do so. (So they better hope I dont win the lottery or come into an inheritance) MAN, I deeply feel your pain and anger because I have it too. Keep up the great posts and dont EVER let any moron on here, (THAT IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE ON HERE) stop you from your cause here. THANK YOU
Cheri Romero	Wednesday, May 12, 2004 @ 6:43 PM
To Margaret Woman, you are sounding about as dumb as a rock!!! It is people like you who make me want to vomit. You may as well take your head, bend over and insert it up your... you know where and keep it there rather than face the REAL deal. WE ARE NOT APOSTATES!!! WE ARE SURVIVORS OF DEEDS DONE THAT WERE COVERED UP BY A RELIGION THAT IS WORST THAN ORGANIZED CRIME!!!! Go away Margaret because you make me want to get violent and break my own belongings! MAN is so right in everything he says and if he sounds abusive....that's your Goddamned problem.
ilidio	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 6:13 AM
Stupid? Really, are the stupid here? Your brainless SR, who do you think is hurting Jehovah? Us by pointing the finger at the abusers and the ones who protect them or the rotten apples in the Org that continues abusing the children in a safe haven with the help of their pals who cover it all up??? You right about one thing though, Jehovah will have the last word in this argument. I bet my life on it that his last word is going to be very different from your version. All the abusers and supporters will burn in gehena. Will you stand up and be counted a righteous one? Or are you a supporter of the atrocities committed by the rotten apples? Either you are with me or against me? Which one? You can not serve two masters, can you? Make your decision while you still can! Remember, by your ideology the end is just around the corner? So, what is it going to be SR?????
NN	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 8:13 AM
To SR - Poor thing! I sens a lot of fear in your address, well quite a lot of witnesses are afraid of everything from demons to God, but just abusing truth tellers won't help you at all.
M.A.N.	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 8:46 AM
To Cheri Romero I am so sorry for what you've been through. I tried to imagine your pain by taking my own and multiplying it by several hundred. I just couldn't do it. I did study paranoid schizophrenia in college in a course called "Abnormal Psychology". I had to view pictures, videos, and write essays. I almost dropped the textbook and cried several times during this time, and I didn't even know these people, not that it mattered. Most of them were old or had other problems and their condition wasn't due to abuse. It's bad enough to acquire a disorder due to bad luck or genetics, but to have it inflicted on a child from the outside is a heinous crime. If a flower gets old and dies, those things happen. But for someone to stomp through a garden and destroy everything in sight just for the pleasure of doing it, merits the death penalty, in my book. (I hope I haven't given anyone the idea I don't care about those who just happen to be sick on their own. I think everyone knows what I'm trying to say. Many have complimented me on my writing eloquence, but I'm not perfect. I take medication to keep from killing myself and the others I blame, and it affects my mood and clarity at times.) In your situation, I can't believe that so many people could be hurt by just one person, but look what Hitler did. I've been to Lake Tahoe, it is beautiful, and should have been for your sister. If it is any consolation, if I ever found the committee who DF'd you, you KNOW you would get justice. It is against the law to do ANYTHING to a person for reporting abuse. I'm warning the WT and any individuals who agree with their policy, you WILL answer someday for what you've done. If there is a God, he does NOT approve of the WT. Any of you JW's here who think the Society is right are risking your lives. "With the judgment you....." And SL has reminded us about the "millstone" from stumbling the little ones. I hope I live long enough to see the WT destroyed and Bethel sold off for scrap. I do buy lottery tickets, and that's exactly where the money is going if I win. The only reason I haven't gone public is my child's privacy. If anything ever happens to her, I will "unleash Hell", in the words of Russell Crowe in the movie "Gladiator". No moron will ever stop me.
M.A.N.	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 8:53 AM
To Cheri Romero I just read your second post. Way to go! I assume you saw my "proctologist" comment. I never saw a more appropriate way to describe these people. If ignorance is bliss, then Margaret is in seventh heaven. (Oh, and please don't insult rocks by comparing them to her IQ!! LOL) I love your comment about organized crime. I'd rather be part of that than covering up child abuse. As some may have guessed, I have more than a passing interest in "The Godfather". Even they would have murdered anyone who was guilty of child abuse. In prison, if it's discovered that a man is there for child abuse, he is often raped and killed. Even criminals have standards better than the WT.
M.A.N.	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 8:57 AM
To ilidio I couldn't have said it better. I will never understand, in this age of technology, the Internet, free speech, etc., how human beings can be so absolutely brain-dead. Think about it: people like SR vote, drive, and worst of all, they reproduce.
silentlambs	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 11:03 AM
Can you help? Media interview in New York next week We are going to be in New York next week visiting with some media. We would like to invite anyone that would like to speak out on abuse in the New York area to contact silentlambs. We think this will be a great opportunity to help others see the extent of the abuse problem in the JW organization. If you would like to assist please contact silentlambs at info@silentlambs.org as soon as possible. silentlambs
M.A.N.	Thursday, May 13, 2004 @ 7:44 PM
To Cheri Romero I'd like to get in touch with you without the WT spies. Let's see if we can devise a method that is anonymous. Thanks.
RWB	Friday, May 14, 2004 @ 6:59 AM
RAPED BY MY JEHOVAH-FATHER RAPED BY MY JEHOVAH-FATHER I was raised as a JW. My Mom was a witness for many years. I left long before my Mother did and my Mother ended up being disfellowshipped because she listened to me as I explained some things to my Mom that she didn't know about early witness doctrine. Man that is so sad that an elder can rape his own Daughter and remain a witness while others that do as the Bible says in Proverbs ( search out your ways and test them) are disfellowshipped. I'm going to take a shower now. I feel that dirty just reading about that kind of abuse going unpunished.
Cindi	Friday, May 14, 2004 @ 10:22 AM
To M.A.N. There really is nothing to clarify. The statement speaks for itself. My dignity was stripped once, and I will not be stripped again by an organization that has little to offer except hatred of the Governing Body. The Christ told us there would be a "Faithful and Discreet Slave", and that he would trust that slave with all of his belongings. Are you so blind that you do not see, as does the Christ, that he does so with full knowledge of its imperfections and with absolute knowledge of the occurrence of the very actions for which it stands condemned by this site?
M.A.N.	Friday, May 14, 2004 @ 1:44 PM
To Cindi First, I'm sorry for what befell you. I don't know the circumstances, particularly if it was associated with a JW and/or a cover-up. This site, although detesting all sexual abuse, is trying to change how the WT handles child abuse. SL, and everyone here, I'm sure, regrets your being raped. This site has a lot to offer if you would be objective and fair. First of all, many of us have anger and pain because we have suffered needlessly from the "imperfections" in the WT, that you seem to want to make us all forgive them for. So you are obligated to forgive us our "imperfections" when we vent and complain, since no one is perfect. If they should be forgiven, so should we. This site has a lot to offer in the way of comfort, information, and a place to work out your pain. I will be a therapist someday, and this process is necessary to heal. We don't hate the GB, we hate would they do, which is a more Christian attitude than they feel toward us. When a person knows he is doing wrong, or refuses to hear that he's doing wrong, then "there is no sacrifice for sins" left to him. They know what they are doing. If they changed and apologized to all the victims and reinstated all the people who have been DF'd, and paid all medical, legal, and therapy costs for all victims, then I'm sure this site will be very pleased and might get off their backs. But they have not done that, and you know as well as I do that there isn't a snowball's chance in Hell that they ever will. The WT is starting to be as arrogant as some of the terrorist groups in the world today. "We'll die before we apologize, our cause is right! Praise Jehovah! Praise the WT!" Sound familiar? It should, if you follow the news. They are the apostates, because they have left true "truth". Their arrogance is appalling, considering their lack of education, knowledge, experience, and intelligence. The IQ's of the people here are higher than those at Bethel. And the education is higher. Only 4.9% of JW's graduate college. For Jews, it's 50%. Other religions are in between. JW's have up to 4 times more cases of mental illness than the population in general. These facts should tell you something. How can I take seriously a group of people who change their minds every other week, all the time insisting they are the only truth? It would be comical if it weren't so serious and hadn't hurt so many people, and so badly, with some of them dying needlessly in order to follow the GB and its false teachings. One book puts the definition of this religion as this: "The truth is defined as the current teachings of the Governing Body which largely consist of denying their own past teachings and condemning views that are held by other groups that the Governing Body will someday adopt as their "new light" and "the truth"." I think this is fair, accurate, and quite ironic, along with being funny. Trust this slave with my belongings? I hardly think so. If they constantly "lose" the truth, they would lose my belongings as well. I am not the blind one here, dear. It is you who are blind. "There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see." Think about that. Of course, Jesus knows what the GB is doing and allowing. And we all know he doesn't like child abuse. But our point is that the GB is not caring for Jesus' belongings when they condone certain things and handle them the way they do. That's the whole point of this site. Covering up abuse is not an "imperfection". It's criminal negligence and conspiracy, both being crimes. But the WT thinks it's above the law, since they feel the universe belongs to them, so they can do what they want with it. Not so. They will answer for what they are doing. Maybe the GB is the "evil slave" that the Bible warned about, for all you know. I suggest you get your facts straight.
Cheri Romero	Friday, May 14, 2004 @ 2:53 PM
To M.A.N Thank you so much for your comments and your concern. You know? I had really forgiven my mother for her child abuse and her transgressions when I was a child, (i.e. drunk driving, drunk beatings, drunk in bed with her best friends-a couple who were witnesses also), and I had made peace with her before she died. But then I found this site o little over a year ago and went into shock while I had all my memories return. Now I am angered at her to the point of hatred. She has been dead for over 10 years and I am angry in the extreme. I too had been suicidal for most of my life. Started trying to take my life at the age of 7 and finally stopped trying at the age of 27. The last time I tried to take my life, I had 3 children in the house and my thoughts were that "someone will find them and they will be fine". Thank God that I found a program that DID lead me to God and to the knowledge that I cannot take my own life. I no longer have that demon to battle but I do have others. I know exactly how you feel. I DO feel the same way. Maybe we can implement a plan to get each others personal info through Bill Bowen. I have met him by phone on a couple occasions and we email occasionally too. I am sure he would be happy to set us up in that way. Let me know what you think. You are a man who is meant to be here. You are meant to be a LOUD voice for this cause. I am too. And I am telling you, I am a really LOUD voice also. I know this to be true. Keep up the screaming. Scream it to the rooftops and we will be a part of the coming changes that will help the remaining children who are victims of those monsters. By the way, my favorite saying is that Organized religion is worst than organized crime because if you rape one of the mob's children? They will cut off your balls and feed you to the fish. If given a choice between the two organizations? I would instantly choose the mob. :)
Cheri Romero	Friday, May 14, 2004 @ 3:03 PM
Man Please dont downsize your pain. I am quite sure that your pain is equally as large as mine. Mine was long ago and it only comes in waves now. And the waves always recede again so I will be aok. The ones I feel for are my sister and the other children who are still stuck in that vortex of pain and sexual anguish. I have nightmares about them. I just want to get them out or get the Governing Body wiped out and a new one installed. Or.....more planes to hit the right building???? :) JK but not really
ilidio	Friday, May 14, 2004 @ 8:55 PM
To Cindy. CINDY, dismantling the Watchtower claim that it is the faithful and discreet slave is easy. All we need to do is look at the track record of the Watchtower as an organization and see if it has been faithful. Consider the following false prophecies made by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society over the years. ---1899 "...the battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." (The Time Is at Hand, page 101 - 1908 edition). ---1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.)--- 1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." (The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.) ---1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." (The Watchtower, PAGE 106 4/1/23.) --- 1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." (Vindication, page 338.) --1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." (The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.) -- - 1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?...Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." (Awake, 10/8/68.) The previous false prophecies of the Watchtower organization demonstrate that it is lacking God's truths. Now I question,((((( Who Really Is The Faithful and Discreet Slave ????))))) WT ORG??? NOT&&. UNFAITHFUL DISCREET SLAVE WOULD BE A MORE APPROPRIATE NAME!!!!
NN	Saturday, May 15, 2004 @ 4:06 AM
About Danish First I think it is quit interesting to note the secrecy, like you must not copy this...I think they do that not for fear or the text getting out - it is quite noncommittal - but to make the elders feel that this is really great stuff, when in reality it is not. First this "two witness policy" is wrong since we have a precedence in the Mosaic law that when someone is raped on an isolated location no witnesses was needed, Deuteronomy 22:25. And then of course all those nice words is only applicable when there is a confirmed case of abuse - which as we have seen there almost never is among these people - no matter what the victim says.
CG	Saturday, May 15, 2004 @ 11:14 AM
I just went back through months and months of entries in the guestbook. It has really given me insight into my own state of mind as a result of being branded an apostate. I was a jw for 22 yrs and suffered from bouts of depression. (I never had depression prior to that) When I finally left the group and went through the hell of losing all my friends, my relationship with my daughter and nearly lost my marriage, I ended up with a mental collapse that put me in the hospital for 2 weeks. The trauma from it all was too great to handle. At the present moment I am experiencing depression once again. Reading the guest book has made me realize that even after 7 years of leaving the WTS, I am still suffering from the trauma of being brainwashed by a powerful cult that destroys lives and families. My husband who is an alcoholic and has sexually abused my own two daughters remains a ministerial servant in good standing. I want to vomit at the thought of how he is held in high esteem for his character and admired for his fortitude to remain married to an "apostate". None of them would ever believe the moral filth that has been his lifestyle. The "good ole boys" club is alive and well in the WTS.--------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Please email us at info@silentlambs.org we might have some helpful suggestions.
QB	Saturday, May 15, 2004 @ 4:23 PM
Go!! SilentLambs Denmark Go!! Congratulations and kudos to the silenatlambs of Denmark who have finally accomplished what no one has been able to do since 1967:.... In case of abuse steps must immediately be taken to protect the child against additional abuse. The parents, the victim or the elders must immediately take contact with a doctor or the Social Authorities....The elders must not interrogate the child to find out what has happened. This is something the parents must do in cooperation with doctors or the authorities...If extraordinary circumstances dictate that a child abuser is not expelled Public Reproof will be offered in the congregation so families with children will be alerted....Hats off to the Danish who care about their children, MUAHH!!!
the mole	Saturday, May 15, 2004 @ 5:08 PM
time ***the mole*** has time passed so much that if one active witness could say that the abuse allegations have wained and to move on? This is what was said to me during casual conversation with a friend of mine who still attends meetings because of his wife.........I must say that even if ignorance were not a factor, what would be the date to fear for the time of the end predicted by the organization? By what measure do we identify this doomsday, julian or the gregorian calander? Must we date it from Christ's birth or death? Since the ancients had no concept of zero how does change the Jehovah's Witness thoughts of the 1914 date? For a thousand years people have never tired of imposing a human perception of a diety and a time of the end. How many religions have come and gone imposing their evil upon us and killing those who spoke against their wrongs? In another hundred years when all of us and our generations tire of the predictions the organization has suggested, will this group last? Back to my friends comment. Was the error by the org so trivial it was now time to move on? How many times must we move on? In 1000 A.D the church scared everyone into a frenzy that christ was coming and all would die? how many cultures and people were killed during this conversion to christianity? Has anything changed? Those who fall prey to untruth and fail to wake up lost not only their time but true happiness. Love is what christ taught and forgiveness, not during some destruction of mankind but now is what he teached. Does any of you have this love? Does the org give this love? Time will destroy the organization because unconditional love has left them and if and when god comes would it not be better to have already forgave and loved with your whole heart and whole mind today?...By their acts they will show if god is with them!....the mole..
M.A.N.	Sunday, May 16, 2004 @ 11:10 AM
To all, including WT After careful consideration of the situation, and due to personal circumstances that can no longer be ignored, I intend to devote a significant amount of my time, energy, resources, and abilities in support of Silent Lambs. My education, degrees, certifications, economic assets, personal experiences, (including being a servant for several years), various contacts, and spheres of influence will be utilized in the on-going effort to expose the corrupt, scandalous, immoral, offensive, and indecent policies of the WT. These very policies have been responsible for the staggering amount of pain and suffering endured by the innocent victims that this site endeavors to assist and comfort. In addition, I have concluded that this cause will best be served by utilizing the most mature, efficient, and accurate methods available to me. Therefore, future posts from me will be governed by the principles and procedures now mentioned. People who are trolls, obnxious, unfair, cruel, purposely slanderous to the work done by Silent Lambs, sarcastic to victims, sarcastic to those who post here to defend the work of SL, or sarcastic to those who post here to comfort victims will either be ignored or answered in a manner that suits their comments and attitudes. I will no longer engage in name-calling, violence (whether verbal or implied), or any other unprofessional behavior. In other words, I will no longer stoop to the low level of those who post here to hurt the innocent. My postings will be factual, frank, blunt, and I "will tell it like it is". I now believe that this method of utilizing the discussion board will yield the best results. But make no mistake, I feel the same outrage and hurt that I felt before. I may now believe that all people are owed a professional and dignified response, even if their posts are not professional nor dignified, but I will not excuse or forgive intolerance, blind obedience to the WT, or ignorance. The work of Silent Lambs is decent, mature, and benevolent. I will therefore participate in that work in a civilized and mature manner. Thank you.
MA	Sunday, May 16, 2004 @ 11:14 AM
IF THAT EVIL SLAVE 55 The Lord Jesus Christ will continue to have a faithful and discreet slave class down to the end of its happy service on earth. However, each spirit-begotten, anointed member of that slave class today must watch his conduct that he does not prove himself unfit to continue in that highly favored class. By failure to maintain his personal faithfulness and discreetness he would become like a man who turns out to be an evil slave. Jesus warned of this danger when he continued on with his illustration to say: 56 But if [ever] that evil slave should say in his heart, My master is delaying, and should start to beat his fellow slaves and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards [literally, the (ones) getting drunk], the master of that slave will come [Greek: héxei] on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and will punish him with the greatest severity [literally, he will cut asunder him] and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.Matthew 24:48-51; Luke 12:45, 46; INT. 57 When we take a close look at what Jesus here says, we notice that he does not here say that the departing master does appoint an evil slave, to begin with; nor does he say that the faithful and discreet slave turns out bad, becomes evil. He merely raises the question and says, If ever (as in Luke 12:45 and Interlinear reading in Matthew 24:48) the slave that was appointed over the domestics were to say, after his becoming evil at heart, that his master will yet be a long time in returning and were to start acting improperly, this is the way that his master would deal with him on returning. It would be far opposite from the slaves being put over all his masters belongings. So Jesus suggestion here is, Suppose that the appointed slave would turn out bad and act unfaithfully and imprudently, what would happen to him when his master suddenly returned? It would be just as Jesus described. Jesus does not speak of the original appointed slaves turning out bad as a certainty or as very likely. 58 Some modern translations of Jesus words bring out that thought more clearly, by a bit of paraphrase. An American Translation says: But if he is a bad slave and says to himself, My master is going to stay a long time, and begins to beat the other slaves, and eats and drinks with the drunkards. (Matthew 24:48, 49) The New English Bible reads similarly. The New American Bible says: But if the servant is worthless and tells himself, etc. The New Testament in Modern Speech, by R. F. Weymouth, says: But, if the man, being a bad servant, should say in his heart, etc. The coming of an evil slave into existence is not definitely predicted by Jesus. He merely describes how an unfaithful and indiscreet slave would think, speak and act, and the punishment that he would receive from his master on his sudden returning. If the slave appointed by the Lord Jesus turned out bad, it would leave him without a slave to reward for his integrity. Jesus does not appoint two slave classes.
MA	Monday, May 17, 2004 @ 8:29 AM
If that evil slave That was the best article I could find explaining the "Evil Slave" from the "Thousand Year Rule" book written in 1974 P 356. There doesn't appear to be many articles written directly about "that" subject. The Watchtower from 2000 10/15 says..........Some false teachers may formerly have been true Christians, but at one point they turned from truth to error. (Jude 4, 11) This should not surprise us. After speaking of the faithful and discreet slave that represents the body of anointed Christians, Jesus spoke of the evil slave, a class that complains, my master is delaying, and starts to beat its fellow slaves. (Matthew 24:48, 49) Often, these individuals and their followers have no clear teachings of their own; they are interested only in destroying the faith of others. Concerning them, the apostle John wrote: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him.2 John 10; 2 Corinthians 11:3, 4, 13-15........It would appear from this "new light" that there is in fact 2 classes. It may be noted Jesus used the word "that" and the word "slave" seems to be a carry on of the same thought in both paragraphs. What I think the WTBTS is trying to say is they are "permanent" (come what may) unlike the Catholic teaching that when the Pope makes an official statement it is "infallible". Considering there never has been an earthly organisation in Bible history that has "permantly" had Jehovahs blessing you may ask the question does the WTBTS meet the requirements of "that evil slave". 1) But if [ever] that evil slave should say in his heart, My master is delaying, could be likened to the many failed WTBS predictions cumulating with the change of the "geration" meaning. 2) and should start to beat his fellow slaves could be likened to the WTBTS's appalling record of child abuse and mental cruelty of its members. 3) and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, The Watchtower of 6/1/91 says Like Samaria and Jerusalem, Christendom has drunk deep of the wine of political alliances. In 1919 she was among the foremost promoters of the League of Nations. This and many other WTBTS articles (with the possible exception of the Awake 8/8/91 which was about the time they joined) have in there own words confirmed that the UN is a spiritual drunkard. Yet for 10 years they where a "Non Governmental Organization" member of the UN. There are many articles discussing this on the net you be the judge. If you have felt that the WTBTS is or was "the faithful and discreet slave" but has now become the "evil slave" you may want to do what David did with Saul when he turned bad. While it is true as the WTBTS have so many times pointed out they he didn't kill Saul (surprise, surprise) he did show Saul that he could have killed him (that was a surprise). He kept his relationship with his loyal friends and Jehovah. He ran away and hid in the mountains so Saul couldn't hurt him anymore.
	Monday, May 17, 2004 @ 9:46 AM
To CG My heart goes out to you. Your fate - which is shared by so many others - is what makes me hate this organisation. Of course I can't advise You but I think you should distance yourself from this evil organisation. Shunn them - and all who stay loyal to them in spite of what they know! That is a way to show yourself that you have choosen your life - that in teh end will show itself to be a better life. And you must remember that The Watchtower is a pathetic little bunch of people. They have no right to call you - or anyone - apostate. You are not an apostate since you are more loyal to the true God than they ever been.
silentlambs	Monday, May 17, 2004 @ 11:41 AM
CG You can call us at 270-527-5350, you do have options you just need to know what they are. Your confidentiality is assured. silentlambs
CHERI ROMERO	Monday, May 17, 2004 @ 5:26 PM
To Man I didnt get a response from you on the idea that we can exchange our personal info through Bill Bowen at Silent Lambs. Let me know ok?
Cheri Romero	Monday, May 17, 2004 @ 5:30 PM
To the mole Hey there. I still want to speak to you directly if at all possible. I know that you are in the same town as me. You speak as is you no longer attend meetings. Is that true? I am way behind due to my son being in Iraq and being shot and just recently coming home on leave. They are making him return to Iraq for a second tour so I am a basketcase. Maybe contact me through Silent lambs so we can exchange info? Let me know
M.A.N.	Tuesday, May 18, 2004 @ 8:01 AM
To Cheri Romero Hi: Sorry for the delay. College is keeping me busy. I have a few ideas and I'll get to it within a day or two. Thanks.
Sergey P.	Tuesday, May 18, 2004 @ 12:32 PM
The mother of my girl is... Jehovah's Witness Hello!!! From Russia. I think that this organisation must be destroyed. It's very bad.....It's .... .... .... .... ....break many family's in whole Russia.......... Such organisation of Witneses must BURN IH HELL.
shanghai	Tuesday, May 18, 2004 @ 9:37 PM
shanghai98 Great site ! You really are taking it to the next level.
	Tuesday, May 18, 2004 @ 10:08 PM
To M.A.N. That was a great post you sent! I admire your resolve to keep professional and civil regardless of other people's posts, even if they are outrageous. Responding in kind to those posts is defeatist, and those posts shouldn't be dignified by responding in the same manner. I agree that behavior that rises above all the smearing is the only way to go. Sometimes a person just has to wade through the muck and keep to their convictions. Good for you. Your standards are high, and you are committed to honoring and respecting them. Don't let the negative comments bring you down to the level in which they are meant. The golden rule says, "Do unto others AS you WOULD HAVE THEM do unto you", not AS they do unto you. Big, big difference. Please keep up the great posts.
R-Freedom	Thursday, May 20, 2004 @ 8:34 AM
This is long but needs to be said I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, it was a childhood that I wish no child would ever have to live. Birthday's and holidays were replaced with church meetings, field service and bible studies. There were various "brothers" in the congregation that were attracted to young girls. When I was about 10 years old one of the "elders" (Russel Brown, a tall, awkward, babbling, idiot who was obviously a failure in every other aspect of his life and who's wife never brushed her hair) told me that a dress I was wearing was no longer appropriate because it showed my developing breasts and that I may get brothers in the Hall excited. I proceeded to run away from him screaming and he never approached me again. When I approached my mother about this she said he was one of the elders and he loved me and was trying to help me. There was another "brother" (Mike Stanley a 40 something single who had been paralyzed in a car accident while intoxicated) in our congregation that used to stare at all of us young girls constantly...everyone noticed but no one cared, it was almost like a joke, no one stopped him. The final "brother" I will mention was (Billy Barnes) his handshakes with young girls used to turn into back rubs and kisses on the cheek. Fortunately I was smart and had a big mouth because no one ever molested me, but there were certainly plenty of perverts in our Kingdom Hall. I knew since I was 5 years old that I didn't want to be a Jehovah's Witness but my mother forced me to go. I would hide on the floor of the car when we went door to door, I was already ridiculed at school for being different I didn't need my schoolmates seeing me at their door. My mother finally stopped forcing me to attend meetings when I was 14 years old. The reason was because I acted out at an assembly. We were at an assembly (the most boring memories of my childhood,8 hours of mental torture for a child) during intermission I sat with two of my life long friends, their parents and 3 young JW men whom we had met. My mother proceeded to come over to me grab my arm and loudly shout "your not allowed to sit with boys". I was about to enter 10th grade that year and all the rage that had been building up inside for that religion came out. I screamed at her that I didn't want the fucking religion and I was sick of her forcing me to go. An "Elder" from our congregation came along and tried to stop me but I also swore at him and told him to get away from me. When we got home from the assembly I ripped of my dress, literally and told my mother I was never going back. On that day I received my freedom but I also lost my mothers financial and emotional support. She treated me like an outcast and we didn't get along until I moved out of the house. For about a year after that rebelled but in the end I'm now happily married and living a productive, moral, normal life. Leaving the Jehovah's Witness organizations was the best thing I could have ever done. I went to three proms (JW's are not allowed to attend proms) I'm about to earn my Associates degree and plan to earn my Bachelors within the next few years. I met my now husband at 16, though my mother frowned on our relationship because JW's don't date until their of marrying age she now thinks my husband is one of the nicest men she's ever met. My mother and other family members still try to preach to me on occasion and I inform them that I would rather die and rest in peace than live forever on earth with a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses. And to those JWs who argue that I dont know what Im talking about because I never studies as an adult are wrong. I lived through it as a child that is supposed to be ones most protected, carefree and happy time. If I was that unhappy as a child in the organization how much more unhappy would I be as an adult. The JW organization is a protection program for low achievers and the formerly abused&I am neither. AH SWEET FREEDOM!!
J	Thursday, May 20, 2004 @ 1:50 PM
R Freedom Great post !!! Well done for breaking free !! That religion destroyed my marriage and alienated me from my friends. I wasn't bought up a witness but was brain washed into it whilst in my twenties. It took me 3 years to break free from their idiot view of the world. I am now happily getting divorced and enjoying my life to the full. I dont lose one moments sleep and I can assure any lurking witness on this site ...... You can leave the "Truth" and the "Truth" can leave you (because its not the truth). Worst mistake I ever made was doing a bible study in the first place. All the best to others who escape with ther minds in tact J
M.A.N.	Thursday, May 20, 2004 @ 2:18 PM
To R-Freedom I'm sorry about your difficult road but happy you found peace. After I finish my BA in Psychology, I might do a thesis on the percentage of people who quit the WT and how and why. I don't know what your degree is in, but I hope you do well academically. Sometimes the rougher the journey, the "sweeter" the destination, as you said.
Meghan	Thursday, May 20, 2004 @ 4:30 PM
Apostasy Isn't apostasy really much more subtle than say a direct attack on an institution like Jehovah's Witnesses? Does it make me an apostate just because I think they have done something wrong or would it be for some other reason that I am an apostate?
T.S.	Thursday, May 20, 2004 @ 11:01 PM
Help from Jehovah and not the JW's I am an ex Jw and incest survivor. I am considered an ex at many things but with this program, (which I am now proud to be a part of as it travels through the nation) a prayer ministry I have found that I no longer am an ex anything all I am now is a child of God, A woman with a destiny before the founding of the world. Before this ministry touched my life I was afraid of everything and everyone often wishing to just die, and I blamed God for a lot of what happened but then I learned he was crying for me too and he picked me up, washed me off and called me his child and I will never be the same again. These conferences are free (contributions will be accepted to help offset the cost but they are not manditatory) and if I am right they will change your life forever if I am wrong you will have only wasted one day. Our nex conference in June 12th at the La Quinta--Otter Creek in Little Rock, Arkansas. And God bless you
Freedom	Friday, May 21, 2004 @ 3:51 AM
RE: Apostate Apostate is simply a colorful word with a negative conotation that means to walk away from or to make a decision against. It's taking a stand for what one "believes" in rather than what one was "taught" religiously. Webster's dictionary says: 1 : renunciation of a religious faith 2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty Sounds like free will to me
ilidio	Friday, May 21, 2004 @ 6:03 AM
meghan Being called an apostate is not a bad thing. The Dictionary says the following (((((APOSTATE: One who has abandoned one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.))))According to the description above there are going to be lots of apostates in the USA. Why I say that? Bush might not get voted in again, and therefore all the Republicans who become Democrats will be apostates.
na	Friday, May 21, 2004 @ 11:16 AM
Death to The silly just got plain ridiculous at last night's (5/20/04) Service Meeting. A 2 page letter was read at the announcements about the "wrongful attitude" of Convention delegates who purchase lunch during the intermission instead of just "brown bagging" it. This letter was long and LOADED with scriptures about why we should follow the direction to bring lunch and not to put money into the street vendor's pockets. The instructions said that ALL of the scriptures were to be read in full! There must have been 10-15 of them. The letter even went so far as to suggest what your lunch might be comprised of (Sandwich, cookie, fruit, beverage). It almost sounded like a JC would be formed if you were caught doing the "dirty deed" - feeding your family. The whole process took 22 min's. Gimme a break.
NN	Friday, May 21, 2004 @ 4:30 PM
Apostasy - says who? About apostacy, you need to see in in its historical context. When you do that you will see that it was used as a power tool by different dominant/fighting religions. So the term apostate/apostacy is always a subjectiv religio- political term, and can never be used as an objectiv description. As a consequence neither the Watchtower organisation or anyone else acting in a democratic country have any legal right to call anyone "apostate" since no religion can claim to be "the one true faith" of any democratic country. The only religion that still has that legal possibility is islam, since there are still countries ruled by islamic priests.
Ken	Friday, May 21, 2004 @ 4:40 PM
kene1godwin very good site - i'll be back
Fábio Pacheco - SP - Brasil	Friday, May 21, 2004 @ 11:50 PM
Congratulations Congratulations for helping the children.
	Saturday, May 22, 2004 @ 3:57 PM
Sickening Last week I learned that the pedophilia network and the pedophile ring network is so vast it is unbelievable! Pedophilia goes right up to among wealthy people with famous names. There are card carrying pedophiles. On each of these cards is a picture of someone involved in some kind of sexual activity with a two year old. Whistleblowers have to be very careful, or they can be murdered! It is all so horribly overwhelming and very, very scary. Keep talking people! Don't let the WTBTS get the best of you! Keep right on exposing what is going on in the Jehovah's Witness religion. Hang in there! You are doing the right thing!
MA	Sunday, May 23, 2004 @ 9:34 AM
Apostasy. Apostasy is a standing away from, a falling away, defec- tion, rebellion, abandonment; it involves teaching false doctrines, supporting or promoting false religion and its holidays or interfaith activities. (Deut. 13:13, 15; Josh. 22:22, ftn.; Acts 21:21, ftn.; 2 Cor. 6:14, 15, 17, 18; 2. John 7, 9, 10; Rev. 18:4) Those with sincere doubts should be helped, dealt with mercifully. (Jude 22, 23; w82 9/1 pp. 20-1;w80 8/1 pp. 21-2) Apostasy includes action taken against true worship of Jehovah or his established order among his dedicated people. (Jer. 17:13; 23:15; 28:15, 16; 2 Thess. 2:9, 10) Persons who deliberately spread (stubbornly hold to and speak about) teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses are apostates. If it is learned that a person has taken up association with another religious organization, the matter should be inves- tigated, and if verified, a committee should be formed. If it is clearly established that the person has joined another religion and intends to remain with it, the elders would make a brief announcement to the congre- gation that such- one has disassociated himself. (w86 10/15 p. 31 ) Working secularly for a false religious organization could put one in a position similar to that of one preaching false doctrine. (2 Cor. 6:14-16) Celebrating a false religious holiday would be similar to performing any other act of false worship. (Jer. 7:16-19) The Bible condemns the following: Causing divisions and promoting sects. This would be deliberate action disrupting the unity of the congregation or undermining the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement. It may involve or lead to apostasy. (Rom. 16: 17, 18; Titus 3:10, 11 ) The practice of spiritism. (Deut. 18:9-13; I Cor. 10: 21, 22; Gal. 5:20) Idolatry. ( I Cor. 6:9, 10; 10:14) Idolatry includes the possession and use of images and pictures that are employed in false religion&&&&&&&.For instance you might celebrate a birthday which from what I can work out from Watchtowers is not directly (but its practices may be) a religious festival. The WTBTS clearly teaches that this is wrong for JWs to practice. Ephesians 2 16 says Therefore let no man judge YOU in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a Sabbath. While there are examples of unwholesome birthday parties recorded in the Bible you may decide it is up to an individual as to weather they celebrate this or not. What could make you an apostate according to JWs is if you expressed this view to others or perhaps you disagreed with the counsel of the elders after celebrating a birthday. From what I can work out you will be counted an apostate if you make a stand on something that you believe in, that the WTBTS present truth doesnt teach. So you really need to keep up, todays loyal JW could easily become tomorrows apostate if they where to make a stand on todays "present truth" when the WTBTS "new light" comes along. Russell celebrated birthdays.
Vanessa	Tuesday, May 25, 2004 @ 6:35 PM
I feel like you are a true God sent person, Do Not stop your work of speaking out for those who can't yet. I am a fellow Western Kentuckian. I salute you.
AK	Wednesday, May 26, 2004 @ 11:23 PM
Apostasy As one whom the local elders have quietly branded 'apostate', I wait for them to find evidence to disfellowship me. While so doing, I have thought very seriously about what that word (apostasy) means! For over thirty years I called at the homes of the people in the territory to convince them to abandon the religion they were a part of at the time. When they did so, they 'apostasized' from their religion. None of them thought they were abandoning Almighty God or Christ Jesus in doing so. But I convinced them that it was correct to become an 'apostate' from their former religion (I just never used that term 'apostate'). When I left the Watchtower organization some months ago due to a conflict of conscience - I apostasized. I did what the Bible teaches us all to do - examine your religion to see if it honors God and teaches truth - if it does not, then "Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share in her sins." [Revelation 18:4] Jehovah expects us to apostasize from falsehood. We must not allow the negative spin that men assign to a simple word, to ever prevent us from doing what God expects. May the God of peace and kindness be with all the survivors and victims who still love Him. May you all find peace as you have determined to "quit touching the unclean thing". [2 Corinthians 6:17]
R-Freedom	Thursday, May 27, 2004 @ 1:22 PM
Only God can see our hearts At times I wonder if God watches over and loves me because I've walked away from the JW religion. I'm not sure if others have had the same feelings but I'm guessing they might due to the tremendous "brainwashing" that occurs in the JW religion (ie: Brown Bag your lunch or else!). However, I comfort myself with the idea that God knows what I've been through, he knows who I dealt with and why I was pushed out of the JW religion. And he sees those who have been molested, and he sees their pain. God also sees the abusers, and though they may be reinstated in to the relgion and accepted back by men God may still disaprove of them. JW's can walk around saying that those who are not practicing their religion are going to die at armageddon; but the sad this is not one of them truely knows if they're going to be saved or not. Assuming that all they teach and preach is true many of them will die when the time comes and many non JW's or former JW's will live because they're sincerely better people. In the end no matter what religion we are God knows our hearts and he will decide our fate.
Mister G D L	Thursday, May 27, 2004 @ 2:00 PM
Thank You¡ Thank you for help. I'd like to have contact wiyh anybody in Mexico. BYE¡
Rachel	Thursday, May 27, 2004 @ 2:15 PM
Good to see the growth on this site! I haven't visited in some time, but it's great (but at the same time sad?) to see the number of people finally communicating about this. Can I just say how great it feels to not be "alone" like I thought I was all those years?! I agree that bringing change and responsibility to the head organization is imperative, but does anyone else dream of having individuals - I'm thinking of specific Elders in my case - being brought to task for their part? My story: my step-father (ministerial servant) abused me for years. When I was 8, my mother even walked in in the midst of an episode, so there was my "second witness". He was disfellowshipped (for 6 months), the Elders never spoke to me, and no authorities were called in. Three years later, the abuse is still happening - I started fighting back enough to scare deal old "Dad" into "admitting" to my mother and the Elders that he is abusing me again. What happens? NOTHING! No disfellowshipping. Again, not one word spoken to me. This time though, someone in my family figures out what's going on and gets the police involved. "Dad" goes to jail for 6 months and FINALLY, THANKFULLY, I get into counseling - at this point, I'm 12 years old and have been abused for as long as I can remember. After his release from jail, things are quiet for a while. He's not allowed to live with us, and we're not allowed to be alone together. But then he starts peeping in my bedroom window at all times. Making comments. And then - again. I'm so tired. Will this ever end? But there's a teacher at my school who notices something is wrong and she has a suspicion. The police interview me at school and it all comes out. "Dad" is arrested later that day. That weekend, I am called before the elders. Bob Svihovec, John Webb, Jim Powers, Mike Lucas - I will always remember these elder's names. I am asked if I'm sure the abuse happened, and then it's implicated that I must have enjoyed the abuse to let it go on for so long. And even though "Dad" is allowed to plea bargain to 3 years in prison, because it's my word against his, he won't be disfellowshipped. That is when the disillusionment became total. Thank goodness for two wonderful counselors I had who helped me back to sanity. I have such a good, happy, balanced life now! But the remaining anger I feel towards my step-father is about equal to what I feel towards the elders - anyone else feel similarly?
R-Freedom	Friday, May 28, 2004 @ 3:15 AM
RE: Rachel Hi Rachel, I'm so sorry about all that happened to you in your childhood. JW's teach children to fear the world outside, you were taught to fear the inside world as well. Did you have anyone to turn to at all? I'm so glad the pervert finally went to jail and even if he's not disfellowshiped, he's got a black mark on him forever in the real world. One of my relatives who grew up protestant and is now a JW was abused by her father. Recently when I was complaining about my JW childhood that relative told me "at least you were raised safe, I wish I had been a JW growing up because I wouldn't have been abused" HA!! I'm going to tell her your story when I talk to her next time...and I'll tell her about this site. I wasn't abused in my childhood (see my May 20th post if you want) but I did grow up as a Jehovah's witness (that's child abuse in and of itself). I know how it feels to talk to both parents and elders and not really be heard I was smothered in the JW religion, I have a very "colorful" personality and it wasn't encouraged at all. When I was around the age of 13 and still wasn't commenting at the meetings (I remember those kids who were giving 5 sentence answers at Watchtower studies) people began expecting more of me. At that time we were studying the Revelation book. Well I decided to dive in and begin reading the chapters. All the adults had said how difficult it was to understand...It didn't challenge my adolescent mind at all. I showed the adults in the congregation that I understood completely what was going on at the meetings. I was told by one elders wife that I had a very strong personality and was extremely intelligent and that I could use those skills for the good of the religion or I could choose another path...Well when I turned 14 I ran for that "other" path. It was boredom, frustration and being unheard and disrespected that led me to rebellion. I even went as far as to dabble in the Born Again Christian religion....Closest thing to the Devil in a JW's mind. The JW religion is not for children, they don't accommodate or protect children, they take pride in the fact that they don't send their children to "Sunday school or CCD". What they refuse to accept is that most of the children are bored out of their minds and afraid to say anything about it. The JW religion continues to affect my life because when I visit my parents the books and materials surround me. My friends don't visit because they feel uncomfortable in my parents home. One of my very best childhood friends who was also raised as a JW isn't even allowed in my parents home because she's living with her boyfriend. So to this day my family and friends continue to be torn apart. It's such a hurtful society in many many ways....And yea I feel good not to be alone as well, to actually have a place to vent about our unique expierences as JW's is great. Oh and good for you for putting those elders names out there...Those babbling idiots!!
M.A.N.	Friday, May 28, 2004 @ 8:05 AM
To Rachel Rachel: I'm very sorry for what is happening to you. As a person who has a daughter that went through your circumstances, I understand. I am a Psychology major and will be finishing college in August. I plan to finally obtain a Doctorate and become a therapist, hopefully in this field. As many have noted, I used to post violent and angry posts. I then decided that I could be more productive by utilizing my education and other assets. I was a servant for years and have given hundreds of talks. I am no stranger to delivering information in a manner that gets results. This is now being given as a fair warning to those who abuse and protect abusers. When I finish school, I hope to write a book on this subject. I am also a computer network engineer and know the Internet quite well. I intend to name all names of any molestors I uncover and any who are sent to me after I begin this project within the year. I particularly intend to name elders, names of congregations, towns where they are, etc., until the WT admits its perverted handling of this entire situation. I intend to give time, money, and effort to this cause. I will work in harmony with anyone, including SL, to support this work. The only way to make these elders stop acting like perverts by asking questions such as, "Did you enjoy it?", and other nonsense that insults every victim beyond belief, is to publish their names in a book and on the Internet. I will also flood their home town with flyers and contact local people where they live. I intend to ensure that victims are no longer blamed for being victims. As a Psychology major, I realize full well that elders are not qualified to question abuse victims whatsoever, especially men questioning females. When girls or women are questioned or counseled by police or psychologists, it should be done by a woman. I ask all of you: In what other field or set of circumstances would three adult men be allowed to ask a girl about her sexual experiences, whether voluntary or due to abuse?? These men are perverted for even trying, and they must be stopped. Perhaps after writing a book and obtaining an interview on national TV, I can finally put an end to this outrage when I name specific people by name and congregation. Maybe then, abuse victims will be treated properly. How do the rest of you feel about this? Thank you.
AHK	Saturday, May 29, 2004 @ 8:34 AM
Love? What love? I was one of JW's for about 25 years. Through many of those years I pioneered. We were told, in virtually every issue of the WT, that we were the most loving people in the whole world, and that "outside in Satans system" everyone is evil. If ones' dared to protest that their neighbours or relatives were were good people, we were told, "well..they may be nice people, but they aren't GOOD people, because they aren't serving Jehovah". Yet, in that religion, I found the most awful people I had met in my entire life. The degree of spitefulness and downright, deliberate cruelty was unbelievable. Jesus told us that His true disciples could be identified by their love. Well....that was good enough for me. I decided that JW's definitely were NOT the "true religion". Naturally, there is so much more that I could add to all this, but I have made my point, I think. It's ten years since I left that "religion", and I can honestly say that I have never been so happy in my life! Harry.
geevee	Saturday, May 29, 2004 @ 8:44 AM
photos Bill, loved the photo's of the "Bethel" tour. As you say if it wasn't so serious it would be funny. It is a wonder that your face isn't on a wanted poster at every front door of every building they own. You are a super star.
ilidio	Saturday, May 29, 2004 @ 2:23 PM
Name stollen from the catholics???? I was doing some research on the name Jehovah and came across this::(((((((Spelling of "Jehovah" originated with Catholic monk in 13th century??? "The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah] dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270 C.E." (Aid to Bible Understanding" p. 884-885))))) I wonder how JW feel about that???
R-Freedom	Saturday, May 29, 2004 @ 4:40 PM
There wasn't much to get excited about in the religion as a kid....I remember being thrilled to get a bible with fresh, gold, shiny, stuff on the edge. It always wore off pretty quick though....at least I found interest in something!! Oh and remember when they first came out with the tiny bibles...a must have in the early 90's...I wonder what's the rage today in the world of JW literature.
betrade	Sunday, May 30, 2004 @ 3:47 AM
M.A.N Very good iniative M.A.N, I think expose this men as have sit in committees and decide to hide abuse, and dont believe the children. The problem is to find them, everything is so secret. I hope you are succsessful in this , because they dont like to be in media for what they have done, I know in my heart that now this must come to an end, all this abuse as especially young people have to take in JW religion. I must soon talk to elders in the cong as they gave one of my children restrictons, beacuse they have sleep over in the same apartment, and ask them how they can do so without two witnesess that something happened, If it is so important with two eye witnesses to such bad things as abuse of children, then it must be the same in every other case or? This make me furious, when I think about what happened to high elders as i know have done very bad things, one only have to step down, and the other only restrictions.
NN	Sunday, May 30, 2004 @ 3:58 AM
Name of Jehova Dear Illido, this is an example of a typical Watchtower myth, that they have "discovered" the truth about different things in the Bible. The real truth is that these facts continually have been "discovered" by a lot of people through the ages, for example the transcription of Gods Name. And it is a shame that so many people have come to believe that Jehova is an invention of the Watchtower, and to do like they did when choosing this as their own name is to me one of the greatest sacrileges possible.
Luis Padilla	Sunday, May 30, 2004 @ 11:14 AM
Free to be me! I served as the presiding overseer in the Jefferson Spanish congregation in Brooklyn, NY. My wife served as a regular pioneer. We both realized that many of the Watchtower's teachings were wrong and in time disassociated ourselves from this high-control group. The wonderful thing was that we educated ourselves out of this organization to break free from any psychological grips this cult could have on us. This was truly a memorable experience for many and we feel blessed. The judicial committee that wanted to disfellowship me for "apostasy" didn't have that chance when I gave them a huge testimony on all the things I realized and when I read my DA letter. They were stunned and practically "shat" in their pants. We were able to help others too. We now live in Southern California, happy and free. I am glad my kids aren't raised in this unhealthy, suppressed JW environment. I am now getting my Bachelor's degree in Business and I want to continue for my Master's. My goal is to also teach. This organization truly creates a pedophile paradise with its policy and untrained, uneducated elders that don't know a thing about handling these and many other issues. There is one elder in a Queens Spanish congregation that has abused small children in his youth and experimented with homosexuality. I don't know what his status is now after I sent a letter to the Society about that, but I wouldn't be suprised if he's still an elder. In regards to this religion, Rutherford's words still ring true, "Religion is a snare and a racket!" For many JWs, realizing that what Gods Word presents to us is a personal relationship with God and Christ is not easy after years of thinking purely in terms of relationship by means of an organization. Those who courageously take steps to leave the JW organization should find support in the words, "If God is for us, who will be against us?" (Rom. 8:31). It's great to see that Silent Lambs is here to help abused victims find hope and support, things they won't really find in the JW organization. --------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org
M.A.N.	Monday, May 31, 2004 @ 7:37 AM
To AHK I agree. There is no love in the WT. They have what I call "goat gloat". They are actually looking forward to the slaughter of over 6 BILLION people. Think of that!! It makes Hitler look like kindergarten. I've been at the door in service and when the householder even just politely said he wasn't interested, the person with me said, "Good, that's more property for me in the new system! Maybe I'll even get his nice house here." What a nice Christian thought!! What self-righteousness!! Is this how Jesus thought of people?? Hoping they would say no to his message so he could look forward to their deaths?? I rest my case.
M.A.N.	Monday, May 31, 2004 @ 7:48 AM
To Luis Padilla Good for you. I also hope to go back to teaching. An educated mind is the WT's worst enemy, isn't it?? If the WT is the truth, I prefer to stay an agnostic. I will never understand the arrogance of an organization that thinks it knows the best way of doing everything on earth, including counseling, even though it hates higher education and knowledge. In my state, you need a license and certification to be a counselor or social worker. Yet these morons think they can play with the minds of children with their Gestapo tactics during committee meetings, trying to make abused people feel guilty that it happened. I swear, if I hear of one more incident where an abused person was asked, "Did you enjoy it?" or "You must have liked it since you allowed it.", I'm going to personally call the NYC television stations and report it. Maybe being on the five o'clock news for a few weeks will straighten the WT out. But I won't hold my breath. They will probably take out an advertisement in the NY Times and trash everyone who criticizes them.
the mole	Monday, May 31, 2004 @ 2:40 PM
how wrong? another prediction of the time of the end? the year 2010 is our new date to speculate of the destruction of mankind? has not anyone tired of this dribble?...in the year 1010 when jerusalem was captured by the Turks it set off panick about the imminence of the end of time...is it not odd the public is being told of the Aztec calander ending and other predicted fables? i was at a get together and some of my friends, former witness and two who are inactive, now starting talking about the time of the end and what some brothers had mentioned coming back from bethel... *the org gambles on the political truth that the masses are quick to forget.......no apology, no change, no reconcilation with those asked to leave and so this is how the sins of the org shall be polished over by distracting all within its grasp to ignore its errors. another fantasy they will focus on now....***the mole***
Cindy A	Monday, May 31, 2004 @ 7:40 PM
I feel for you Rachael... Hello Rachael, I read your comment and was dumbstruck! When you mentioned the elders names, I started to shake. I served in Chippewa Falls cong. for 5 longggg..... years while I was still married to an elder. We moved there to work where the need was greater. Most of those elders are truly Quacks!!! I am no longer a J.W. nor married. I hope in the near future I'll be able to write my story in the Battered Lambs section. Hang in there. You are not alone...
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 1, 2004 @ 8:08 AM
To bill I wanted to add my comment about your visit to Bethel. I think it's great that they let you take a tour after all that's happened. I'm sure it was very enlightening to those who observed the people working there.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 1, 2004 @ 8:13 AM
To ilidio I bet the average JW doesn't feel anything about this because they don't know anything about this. The entire concept and basis for this religion is borrowed from other people. The WT has come up with original teachings that no one else had first, but most of them have proven wrong. And much of what they do teach was already in circulation long before Russell stopped selling clothes and opened a Bible. Yet we hear "remember where you learned the truth" whenever someone questions the WT as the source of any and all spiritual knowledge. If it weren't so sad that they've ruined countless lives, it would be funny. The odds are better for me winning the lottery than they are for the WT being correct.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 1, 2004 @ 8:20 AM
To Everyone Two quick points that I'd appreciate some feedback on in preparation for my research. First, how do all of you feel about the policy of the elders knowing who the molesters are in the congregation and having the ability to protect their children, but the rest of the flock is in the dark? Isn't that a clergy/laity class? Secondly, what do you think of the procedure where three elders question a young child, usually a female, in a room alone, without allowing the child's mother or a social worker to be with the child for moral support? And asking personal questions such as those I've quoted before? When a young girl goes to a male doctor for an exam, most policies require the mother or a nurse to be in the room with the doctor. Even the "wicked system of things" has better morals than three perverts grilling a child about intimate details of the molestation. Please, as many as possible, I'd really like to get some feedback on these two points. SL is doing a wonderful work and many are venting and/or providing input about their circumstances, but I haven't seen much written about these two issues, unless I've missed it. Many thanks to all of you.
NN	Tuesday, June 1, 2004 @ 4:53 PM
not so innocent - but obedient well, quite a great part of "the flock" is not so very innocent. Quite a lot of people have first hand information about different kinds of abuses and other example of cover ups. But for different reasons they continue to imagine that they will get away with it.....and for me this is soo awful, because for me to be a true christian is to stand up for what is right even if it means to take a risk. But a lot of the witnesses - like other fundamentalistic persons - think that true religion is the same as blind obedience.
KH	Tuesday, June 1, 2004 @ 6:44 PM
regarding research To M.A.N. In regards to the elders knowing about these child molesters in the congregation and leaving the rest of us in the dark, I too was a victim of child abuse. My step- sister was abused from as early as she can remember from her dad and she told anyone in the congregation who would listen including several elders that her dad was touching her in private places and she was told by the elders "God will handle it, go back and be a better daughter and obey your father". My mother was never warned about this man who she married when I was 5 years old and was a ministrial servant in good standing and that is when my abuse started from when I was 5 until I was 11 years old and my mother finally caught him and went to the elders. Later I found out my cousin was also being abused when he was coming over on weekends or school vacations. If the elders had only warned the congregation or my mother what this man was really like it could have saved other victims. My cousin tried to commit suicide last week because the pain was too much to deal with. my mother was allowed to divorce him but both my mother & step-father were disfellowshiped at the same time but no reason or warning was given the announcement stated conduct unbecoming of a JW no warning to the congregation. My step- father then moved to a different congregation where no announcement was made and he married a woman who had a daughter 3 years older than me with no warning from the elders. Question #2 regarding the procedure of questioning the victim. Not one single word was ever mentioned to me about what my step-father did to me, the elders and my mother swept it under the rug so to speak, no one ever asked me to what extent this was going on or if I needed counseling. I pressed charges against my step-father and the 2 congregations and just now am I starting to get answers to my questions that should have been answered long ago. good luck with all ypur research kh in ma
ilidio	Tuesday, June 1, 2004 @ 8:11 PM
Obituary ((((OBITUARY---Today we mourn the passing of an old friend, by the name Jehovahs Witnesses' Common Sense.))))) *****Common Sense lived a long life but died in the United States from heart failure on the brink of the new millennium. No one really knows how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. *****He selflessly devoted his life to service the people so that they could make the right decisions and be free of cults. For decades, petty rules, silly laws held no power over Common Sense. He was credited with cultivating such valued lessons as to know when you were being fooled by someone who was a wolf pretending to be a sheep. *****Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (dont believe everything people tell you), dont be fooled by people who tell you this is the truth&&.*****A veteran of the Industrial Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Technological Revolution, Common Sense survived cultural and educational trends, including body piercing, whole language, and "new math. But his health declined when he became infected with the "If-you- dont-become-a-Jehovahs witness-you-will-not-survive-the- great-tribulation&&&*****In recent decades his waning strength proved no match for the ravages of the WTBTS.*****He watched in pain as good people became ruled by the so called Organization. His health rapidly deteriorated when people blindly followed whatever the elders dictated.. *****Reports of people being disfellowshipped just because they told how they were abused by members of the congregation. A young girl being questioned in a dark room by 3 elders, and being forced to detail the entire sexual abuse without support by her side.*****It declined even further when people were told what to say, do, eat and where not to go and not to go.*****Finally, Common Sense lost his will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband in the hands of WTBTS, Jehovahs witnesses became a money making machine that controls the followers lives just like little puppets, pedophiles received better treatment than victims, and the elders stuck their noses into everything including family affairs. Finally, when people are just too stupid AND follow all the rules that are imposed by WTBTS and the elders, Common Sense threw in the towel. *****As the end neared, Common Sense drifted in and out of logic but was kept informed of developments regarding questionable regulations such as those for low-flow toilets, rocking chairs, and step ladders. *****Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by a step-brother, WTBTS.******Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone..
Cheri Romero	Wednesday, June 2, 2004 @ 6:39 AM
To MAN Hello again to you. My feeling on the issues that you mentioned are this: It is criminal for someone (anyone) to know of a person who hurts a child and does not do anything about it. They are as guilty as the one perpetrating the crime. How dare they know of the injury of a defenseless little person and not do anything about it. Secondly, the questioning of a child by the elders? Without parents present? The parents are idiots! The elders could very well be molesters themselves otherwise they should know that it is inappropriate for them to do such a thing and I cant believe that the authorities cant step in and do something about the elders who know of these children being abused and not helping them. They are accessories to the crime and should be punished.
geevee	Wednesday, June 2, 2004 @ 7:31 AM
to Hi, your post has me intrigued. 2010? Could you "Please explain?"
ilidio	Wednesday, June 2, 2004 @ 10:25 AM
Man 1. Even in the so called wicked system a criminal can not be interrogated without his lawyer present, now imagine a young girl being interrogated by 3 men in a dark room usually the basement of the kingdom hall and being forced to go through the abuse once more with all the particular details. 2. **Elders being the only ones to know who the abusers are so that they can protect their own children and the hell with the rest of the congregation to me is just like insider trading (Isnt Martha Stuart supposed to go to jail for that? Now let us use some common sense and see what is worst, INSIDER TRADING or SEXUAL PREDATORS being known by the elders only??? COMMON SENSE DIED AND JEHOVAHS WITNESSES DID NOT NOTICE.
Rachel	Wednesday, June 2, 2004 @ 2:07 PM
Cindy and M.A.N. Cindy - I wish I could say I was surprised to hear your response, but I'm not! I've kept in contact with one other person who was raised in the Chippewa Falls congregation and in our conversations realized that (conservatively) half of families were hiding physical or sexual abuse. I hope to hear your story though - and I'm so glad to hear you SURVIVED and THRIVED!!! M.A.N. - you have certainly taken on a HUGE project! I would be more than happy to answer any questions you have. As for the hierarchy, from my own experience - being the daughter of a minsterial servant, I was used to primarily socializing with elders' or other ministerial servants' kids - when my abuser was revealed, all of a sudden I was as much of an outcast as him - no longer allowed to have sleepovers, and excluded from other little get-togethers that kids will have. Even after his reinstatement, there was a wall up dividing me from the other children, no matter how well I behaved or how hard I studied the bible and other books.
M.A.N.	Thursday, June 3, 2004 @ 8:05 AM
To all Thank you all for your comments. I will be collecting stories starting in a few months on a regular basis. I still appreciate the current comments, it gives me an idea on how and where to start.
Cheri Romero	Thursday, June 3, 2004 @ 4:54 PM
Question? Could someone tell me what was meant when something was said about low flow toilets, step-ladders and rocking chairs? I know that sounds stupid but I have been out of the ("truth"?, what a joke) org. for a long time.
ilidio	Friday, June 4, 2004 @ 4:30 PM
Cheri Romero You have been out of the truth for a long time???? You mean that you have been out of the lie for a long time??? LOL.***Low-flow toilets, rocking chairs**** means the things that were related that were not important.
L. Beagle	Saturday, June 5, 2004 @ 1:30 AM
Hello I haven't checked the guestbook in quite a while. I hope everyone is doing well. Keep fighting the good fight. L. Beagle a.k.a. L.L.B. a.k.a. B.L.L. a.k.a. L.B.
reactivated and confused	Sunday, June 6, 2004 @ 10:50 AM
SHOCKING BUT NOT SURPRISING When I was 15 I was the victim of "inappropriate contact" by a "ministerial servant" in the Evergreen congregation of JW's. It was a seedy enough situation with him taking me for ice cream at a local dairy cream after 'field service'. What was foul (that sticks out in my mind that I have been unable to repress) is that he is talking to me about how his wife doesn't like to have sex when she was on her cycle and as he opens the door for me to get out from the inside, his arm firmly brushes against my breasts in a real 'pervy' sort of way. On the way home he notices that I feel uneasy about this and starts speaking about how inappropriate it was for us to be alone when getting this ice cream. Because if I went to the elders of course it would be his word against mine. In my early twenties I left the organization. And convinced it was the only way. I didn't worship anywhere for a number of years. Now after many years (and strong coercion) I'm worshipping with the witnesses again only this time with the force of another oppressive "demon" racism. Nobody owns up to it but it's like radon. And the biggest instigators and probably Klan card carrying members are the elders and ministerial servants.
KL	Monday, June 7, 2004 @ 12:57 AM
Update on my case Hello all. An interesting thing happened the other day - I received a letter from my attorney that stated that the asshole elder who molested filed a response with his attorney DENYING ALL CHARGES. THis is the same man who freely ADMITTED to ALL CHARGES in front of the committee in order to get reinststed. Is he lying now, or then? It will be interesting to see if his elders drag him back in to a committee and ask him that. Either way, he is committing a Disfellowshipping offense - lying under oath or lying to the committee. We will see.....
M.A.N.	Monday, June 7, 2004 @ 10:48 AM
Re: reactivated and confused First, let me say I'm sorry about your situation. I can't resist a little humor. "Reactivated" and "confused" is being redundant. You can't be the first without being the second. This is just another example of perverts using children. I know of no other religion or group of people who would turn to a 15 year old to complain about marital problems. I have an 18 year old daughter. If 3 years ago I had a problem with my marital life, I wouldn't have told her, I would have discussed it with my wife. If telling my own child is sick, how much more so to tell a child that is not your own? And now the final point. If you want to read about racism, check out some of the sites. Russell made some extremely stupid and demeaning comments about blacks during the showing of the Photo Drama of Creation or whatever it was called. He also said things about the shape of heads and other features as if that determines the value of black people. There were also stories about black people turning into white people. Remember, this was a man who determined prophecy by measuring the length of tunnels in a pyramid and the distance in miles between certain buildings in the USA and Bethel. Pretty far out if you ask me.
ilidio	Monday, June 7, 2004 @ 12:16 PM
KL KL, just watch as the man will deny everything and the elders will stick by him.
NN	Monday, June 7, 2004 @ 12:36 PM
to reactivated and .... Well, since the witnesses actualy do not care about the inside - just the outside obedience to the elders - it is not surprising to find rasism, patriotism, sexism etc - in their ranks. In fact the witness society is a carefulley divided hierarcal structure that is arranged in accordance with american middleclass ideals. My only advice to you is to leave this organisation and go out into normal life were you have the right to demand to get your human rights!
	Monday, June 7, 2004 @ 3:27 PM
Still so effected I just told my parents about this organization (Silent Lambs). They were sooooo angry. I haven't been in the religion for about 10 years but it continues to effect me. When I told them how many people have been abused they didn't even care and said it was all a rumor. So I mentioned that the story had been on dateline, cnn, etc. I also reminded them of when an elder has said something inappropriate to me when I was a adolescent. I've told them this before and they never believed me. This time one of them went as far as to say "your making it all up, that never happened" they also told me they're sick of hearing the story over and over again. So I ended the conversation by saying "Well you can have that religion but you won't have your daughter". I never thought I'd feel that way but I can't stand the way they've always chosen the religion over me even to go as far as to say I'm lying. Even as an adult I'm still so effected, and I don't know when I'll talk to them again or if I will. ---- ----------------------------------------------------------- ---------------silentlabms reply-please contact us at info@silentlambs.org we might have some helpful information.
silentlambs	Monday, June 7, 2004 @ 8:24 PM
guestbook guestbook will be delayed a few days we will be attending the SNAP conference in Denver. Your posts will go up but will just be delayed till we return. sl
NN	Tuesday, June 8, 2004 @ 2:45 AM
acting according to surroundings If the witnesses are anything, it is to be in accordance to trends in society, from Russel's time onwards. And today when sexual abuse of women and children seems to be spreading as never before, of course they join in. I remember another example that might sound somewhat funny but has an ominous content. In the 1980:th when commersialism was God, quite a lot of the elders seemed to be wanting to be looked upon not as shepherds but as company leaders, senior executives. This seemed to lead them to develope their already existing attitude of expoloitation towards the congregation even more. So I guess today an ordinary member of the congegation, that is one who lacks the right "connections" and "rank", is of no consequence for this persons and that is one reason why they do not bother to care about their sufferings.
winsap	Tuesday, June 8, 2004 @ 3:10 PM
Final Call This is what Bill a/k/a SILENTLAMP should do: 1. Make a concession before the entire membership in which he admits lying to the world, deceiving the world, and violating God's law in his attempts to divide God's people and to separate them from His organization. 2. Get down on his knees and beg our Creator for forgiveness and help. 3. Resign as operator of an apostate website, given the definition of apostacy as Bill well knows that word to be defined by ecclesiastical law. 4. Submit to a judial hearing on charges of apostacy. 5. Once repentent, accept all conditions for reinstatement and follow the suggestions for help without modification. Will this happen? No Way. Why not? It calls for critical thinking ability. Why would Bill not be able to think critically? Bill's head is so swelled and puffy that it caused his brain to pop out. -------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-we let this one go up also, it is always interesting to see how protecting children can be twisted into hurting God. What was the statement about "critical thinking ability?"
Winnie W K	Tuesday, June 8, 2004 @ 3:39 PM
a long time It took me a long time to write you all, but I have been out for 7 years now...I didn't have the strength until I was 29, and made a friend outside who could give me the strength (He's now my husband). My father is an elder, my mother a pioneer, my brother is at Bethel.. the whole works. They informed me I would be dead to them, and they have stuck by that statement! Life is a million times better with JW, and I wish my brother would listen and leave...They destroy youth and childhood, innocence and joy. I have grown increasingly angry at them, and I have to do something to heal myself from the pain. Strength and love to all of you have have left too.silentlambs reply-please write us at info@silentlambs.org
Andyrewski1971	Thursday, June 10, 2004 @ 3:30 AM
This is the world we live in 6000 years plus of imperfection. No religious organization is without faults. Look up any religion on the net. Some folks like them and some folks don't. Research the history of Catholic Popes if uou want to here of rape, murder, incest. It's all there. as long as satan exist, there will be problems. If your a victim, I suggest you stop crusading about how harmed you are, stop blaming, and forgive. Until you do, your life will continue to be miserable. Think of all the less fortunates in this world. do you eat out of a garbage dump everyday? Do you have a roof over your head? Visit the Phillipines, it will make you appreciate living in the west.Oh poor me, oh poor me. oh poor me! ----------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-This comment is allowed to show the disgusting reasoning of small minded people.
H.B.	Thursday, June 10, 2004 @ 7:51 AM
M.A.N I was involved in supporting two children who had been sexualy abused by a ministerial servant. Four elders came to hear the evidence for a committee. Myself and the mother of one of the girls spent almost an hour arguing with them as to how much the girls could be questioned. In my secular work I support abused women and their children and there was no way I was going to sit back and let four male strangers who claimed to care for these girls abuse them all over again by questioning every detail of the abuse as they claim they have the right to do. We told them that the girls had agreed that they could read the written reports already given and the only question we would be prepared for them to ask and receive a one word answer was is this true so a yes or no would have to suffice. This took place after the abuser concerned was convicted and given a jail sentence and the family, myself and three of the elders involved in this comittee heard him admit his guilt in court. Those involved in court proceedures go to great lengths to try and sheild the victims from the abuser and work tirelessly to get an admission of guilt rather than subject victims to cross examination. But we were told this is secular law and not Jehovah's law and they would need to question the girls. This time however they met their match in the girls mother and myself. But I can say that they have no idea about abuse despite claiming to be so well informed by the society. They also declined my invitation to enlighting them about the issue despite the fact that I have been doing this type of work for almost 20 years. I have also wrote to our branch office in Britian and suggested they adopt this proceedure of reading written reports in the future however I have had not one assurance that they would even consider this. So more children will be subjected to the ordeal of describing their experince and not be believed and receive no help to recover from their experiences. SO much for love!!! May I say also on a personal note that I have tried to hang on in the truth for almost two years now after being involved for 28 years but I am at breaking point. I am viewed as weak as I cannot get over the extent and scale of the abuse in this worldwide organisation and the total lack of understanding of those elders who are suppose to be there to support the congregation. I am constantly being told that this would not happen in our Kingdom Hall and I should put the issue behind me. We are constantly being told to have love for the whole brotherhood but when I express my concern for this worldwide issue I am the one who is in the wrong and has a lack of faith one who is not willing to "wait on Jehovah" Keep up the good work this site is a must for those who are not heard over this issue. ---------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-pleae contact us at info@silentlambs.org I have some information that might be helpful.
Jacob	Thursday, June 10, 2004 @ 5:20 PM
to KL Since your molestor has changed his story then he is obviously a liar. Im sure the elders will want to know the details of his denial so please make sure they receive a copy, so that they can deal with him for what he is - an unrepentant sinner.
Gladtobefree	Friday, June 11, 2004 @ 7:34 PM
Elder/Child Molester Released From Prison I am trying to get the word out that Daniel S Fitzwater Sr was released from Prison on May 29th. He was convicted of lewdness with a minor (8 years old) and has been accused of molestation by 17 girls. He was one of the guys pictured on dateline. He is currently in Nevada from what I understand. Last I heard probably Fallen, NV. He has applied for residency in Fergus Falls, Minnesota, where his wife is currently residing. I will be trying to find out how to get some fliers made. I will let you know when I have more info. You can find his picture on the Dateline link on this site. He is the one with the Nevada Dept of Corrections sign below him.
Eddie V.	Saturday, June 12, 2004 @ 2:39 PM
I was given this site by someone to look at, and I'm very glad I did. I didn't know there was one such as this. I think it's so good to have a site like this, and I have passed it on to others I know. Thanks, Eddie V.
ilidio	Monday, June 14, 2004 @ 8:09 PM
To: Andyrewski1971 Andyrewski1971, Are you familiar with the scripture [[[[[[[Like a senseless woman you also have spoken]]]]]]]. You might not be a woman but you sure hell sound like one. Yes, no religious organization is without faults, just like you said: its all there: rape, murder, incest&& However, if you were allowed to listen to the news and reports from other sources than the wtbts you would know that the catholic church (as an example) has publicly apologized for all the atrocities committed. That is not much. But it takes GUTS to do it!!! Has the wtbts ever done that??? NO! Why not? It's called pride. Your might not know that word. On another matter, If you feel sorry for the people in the Philippines just donate some of your money to them, it certainly could be better used in the Philippines, or better yet just give the society a call and ask them to send a donation on your behalf. Oh yes, I forgot, they dont do that do they!! THEY DONT CONTRIBUTE A SINGLE CENT TO ANYONE IN NEED. Keep praying that your eyes will open so that you can see the light. May God have pity on you, you small brained one.
ilidio	Monday, June 14, 2004 @ 8:56 PM
To: winsap Final call for the train than never arrived! Never arrives! Will never arrive! 1. Admitting to lying, deceiving the world and violating Gods laws? Who the hell is the Jw here, Bill or you???? You must be dumb as sh**t to come up with such a statement, did you come up with this on your own or did you get it from the June Kingdom Ministry? I say that because you are not allowed to use your brain to think. The borg does that for you (borg = collective of non thinking group of people from the star trek that resembles the JW, Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated) 2.Where on earth did you hear about going on your knees to ask for forgiveness? If the elders make you go on your knees I can guarantee you is not for forgiveness, it must be for other activities that they are famous for. 3. Contrary to your ideology the word apostasy was not invented by the wtbts. The dictionary says of Apostasy: [[[[Abandonment of one's religious faith, a political party, one's principles, or a cause.]]]] 4. Repentant, repentant from what? From speaking the truth? 5. You ought to be ashamed of yourself going from door to door preaching that men were created in Gods image, you sure dont fit into that category. You resemble more the image of a brainless Gorilla. 6. The ones with a head swelled and puffed up are the window washers, truck drivers, garbage collectors that at night become elders and counselors in the congregation, they walk as lords over kingdoms, which they are, Lords of Kingdom Halls. Your post was indeed laughable. Thank you so much for the entertainment. Yet, there is still hope for you. I was there for 15 years and my wife 30. WE ARE FINALLY FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mp	Monday, June 14, 2004 @ 11:31 PM
to Andyrewski1971 and winsap I visit this site almost every day, although I only occasionally see something that seems to demand a response. The comments from both of these people are so stupid I first had to laugh at them and then I got angry. Does Andyrewski really believe that an abuse victim should feel like -- I'm so lucky, I was ONLY raped! After all, I could have been murdered and best of all, I am not hungry! So since I am so well off with food to eat and a roof over my head I should just forget and forgive the rapist. Since this is the world we live in, I guess the poor rapist just couldn't help himself.? I am not an abuse victim myself, but I am incensed that people who CLAIM to love God and goodness are not outraged on behalf of the victims. They are more interested in upholding their religion than they are in justice, goodness and truth. As for winsap calling for Bill Bowen's repentence -- should he repent for taking the position Christ Jesus would take if he were here? Do you think that for one moment Jesus would stand by and see children abused, sexually or otherwise, and not take a stand against it? Would He be worried about bringing reproach on the organization? The covering up and protecting pedophiles is what is bringing reproach. If the Society would take swift and appropriate action, people could look at Jehovah's Witnesses and say they are really trying to be true Christians and be drawn to it, but instead this covering up and the head-in-the-sand attitude expressed by Andyrewski and winsap are turning people away. I was a Witness from birth until I was 62 years old! But I cannot go along with such corruption!
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 15, 2004 @ 7:48 AM
To HB I'm glad you got involved and that the elders didn't get their way. I won't attack Jehovah here, but there is a difference between "Jehovah's laws" and "the WT's interpretation of Jehovah's laws". I can't see God wanting 3 perverts intimately questioning a young female. I'm afraid I must say that Caesar's laws are more noble and intelligent than the WT's rules. These people must be stopped. If everyone keeps hammering that point, it will hasten the death of the WT and this insane policy. The hypocrisy here is that if the WT wanted something, they would use secular law in a heartbeat to get their way. They are hypocrites. And I'm not surprised that 20 years of your experience mean nothing to them. Don't you remember? They know everything!! Just ask them! Doesn't it sound reasonable to you that six BILLION people are wrong and six MILLION JW's are right?? And that 20 people make policy in Bethel? They believe it and that's all that counts with them. Keep up the good work.
AG	Wednesday, June 16, 2004 @ 4:34 AM
No matter what even the authorities have to prove that the child was molested Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. For decades The Watchtower and Awake! have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and the need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower ; "Help for the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower, "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home", all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child MolestingEvery Mother's Nightmare," in the January 22, 1985, Awake! When any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local congregation elders are expected to investigate. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him and the victim to restate their position in each other's presence, with elders also there. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action. However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so. If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate congregational action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentantis cut to the heart and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." He would not qualify Scripturally. (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually.2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4. In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdiction where he lived when this happened, elders may have been required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that 20 years have passed. The child abuse reporting law may have changed; the man may have even married the girl! Both have been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation. Our procedures have been refined over time. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We do not believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. We certainly would not knowingly allow him to serve elsewhere, either because he moved or through a transfer. The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance. We take it very seriously.------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-This Pr statement is posted on the JW media website as well as on the silentlambs website. Many comments have been offered to show the hyprocrisy and outright misinformation that are held within this statement. We encourage all who read this to read between the lines and see what is really being said. For example, 1. Elders are required to investigate and interrogate children for the crime of rape. 2. When that child is interrogated it will be required to produce an additional "credible" eye witness if the molester denies the allegation. (99% of child molesters deny) 3. Child molesters can and are reappointed after 20 years to positions of responsibility in the congregation. The example cited by their own definition (97 BOE) does not qualify as a child molestation incident. We provided you with three example we further invite the reader to find additional covert misinformation that is hidden within this statement.
Jacob	Wednesday, June 16, 2004 @ 5:10 AM
Archbishop resigns Archbishop Ian George of Adelaide SA resigned over sex abuse cover ups going back 20 years. He had allowed a child rapist - a fellow priest to leave the country before reporting the rape to the police. Other complants also had not been acted upon while he was in office. Adelaide Advertiser Friday June 11th 2004.
M.A.N.	Wednesday, June 16, 2004 @ 9:08 AM
To Andyrewski1971 I think ilidio said what needed to be said. Since I promised not to rage, I'll keep that promise. You are ignorant, and although you feel we should appreciate what we have, that's brainless thinking. Should I be thankful that people rob my house only once a month instead of every night? Should I prefer to live in this country and close my eyes to the crimes of the WT because I get to eat 3 meals a day and people in other countries don't? Why should anyone be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils? The WT claims there is no evil in it at all. That is a lie. Jesus promised liars would die. You had better think about that. I know that millions who think they will be alive 100 years from now will be dead instead. We all know the history of the Catholic church. I was raised Catholic. Two wrongs don't make a right. When Hitler was destroyed, the Communists took over many countries for decades. Was the world happy about that? Pain is pain. There are no degrees of suffering in areas such as are being debated here. The issue is that the WT adamently insists it will answer to no one, even Caesar, unless it decides so. Caesar says differently, and when the WT is destroyed and some of its members are in jail or worse, then we'll see who owns the universe. If Jehovah is behind these people, I am his enemy, even if I'm killed for it. I don't fear God or the Devil. Righteousness comes first, even before "the sanctification of God's name" or any other WT propaganda.
M.A.N.	Wednesday, June 16, 2004 @ 9:27 AM
To winsap I had to answer this one, considering the level of IQ shown, since it is one of the lowest I've seen. As SL said, some posts are allowed to demonstrate the idiocy of many people who defend the WT and this criminal policy of theirs. There is a saying, "Know thy enemy", and this is how we learn the mental abilities of the WT clones. I believe ilidio took care of you as well, but I have a few things to add. You WT saps (is that the meaning of winSAP?) keep posting here although the WT has told you this is an apostate site. If you want to preach righteousness, then you should never be here even to read, much less to post. Bill lying to the world? Really?? Over 6 thousand victims have come forward with the same story. All he did was create a way for them to tell that story. Did all 6 thousand victims lie? My daughter was a victim. As I said earlier, I try not to rage and threaten to murder people anymore, but I will say this. The Mosaic Law teaches an eye for an eye. It is a scriptural principle that anyone knowing about a crime, ignoring it, or covering it up is just as guilty as the one doing it. So if elders know a man is a molester and don't warn others, or if they molest anyone themselves, they merit the death penalty. So I have the right to kill the man who molested my child and all of the elders who knew the molester was visiting my home and didn't warn me. How big a headline would it make in NYC if 30 people were killed in one day for the sake of vengeance and "God's righteousness"? I'd look worse than a terrorist. Yet I've heard many say they wish the two jets had hit Bethel instead of the twin towers, since better people would have been spared. I watched those towers burn, I live near NYC. Bill is no apostate. The WT is the true apostasy. No perverted committee has the right to judge him. Your attack on his IQ is laughable considering your final few sentences. You can't even be childish in a clever way. We are dealing with our grief and anger at being betrayed and lied to. You are here to be a cutie pie. You're just a stupid punk. I have an IQ of 150, am 54 years old, and know more than you will know if you lived to be 5,000 years old. I am also in the process of obtaining a Doctorate in Psychology. I detest having to do this, but sometimes people need to see how idiotic they are. Your comments were cowardly and cruel. If you ever want to go at this man to man (doubtful in your case), in one year I'm publishing a book describing my entire experience with this organization and what it did to my family. You can meet me then when I go public and we can go on TV and I'll annihilate you. Stop wasting valuable hard drive space.
ilidio	Wednesday, June 16, 2004 @ 8:42 PM
TO: AG If you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses your mind is being controlled by someone else without your knowledge. Most Witnesses will argue that they exercise free choice, but if I offer you a choice from a selection, strictly limited by me, is that really a choice? Well, even "my choice" is a choice! But restriction is one method of control. It is an illusion of free choice and it is effective because you are led to believe that you are still a free agent, making your own decisions. As we shall see, Witnesses have their choices limited in many areas of their lives. Armies control people. Basic training reprograms the soldier's mind to do the will of the Army under special conditions, but in civilian life, the recruit is allowed freedom of expression and choice. Also, the soldier is fully aware of the terms and conditions of Army service before joining. Children are controlled by parents, but again, this is temporary and the child breaks free in adolescence to stand alone. Most parents are happy to see their children grow to maturity and become independent of their necessary control. Witnesses teach that Satan has blinded the minds of the unbelievers (non-JWs) and that they are oblivious to his mind-control. In Watchtower illustrations, the Devil has been depicted as a manipulator of strings attached to governments and people of this world, his world. Does the puppet know it is manipulated? NO, nor the JWs Witnesses rely upon the Writing Committee of the so called "faithful slave" to research for them. This is encouraged by the leadership. Regarding personal study, The Watchtower said, "do some spiritual digging in order to begin getting the very knowledge of Jehovah's heavenly organization" (w15/6 98) where is this "digging" to be done? In the Bible? NO. But through the predigested knowledge from their publications using the Watchtower Index. British people abroad may prefer BBC news reports, believing them to be more accurate and impartial than others. People trust familiar voices and settings - and that is the greatest danger for Witnesses. How do you view people who are not Witnesses? Do you believe they are immoral and dishonest? "Well, not all of them, of course", you say. Are there any really good people who are not Jehovah's Witnesses? If there are, why does the Society forbid - or strongly discourage - marriages with non-Witnesses? (w15/10 98) Although the Bible warns Christians not to judge others since we are all sinners, Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time. It is reasoned that, although we cannot judge the inner man, we can know his "heart condition" (spirituality) by his words and actions - "out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks". That is enough for Jehovah's Witnesses. Those who do not attend all meetings are "weak" or uncommitted unless they have exceptional reasons. Even in the case of severe disability, every effort is made to attend meetings and assemblies - in wheelchairs or on beds and stretchers if necessary. "The Truth": Recently a Witness that was visiting the country where I live asked me, "Is your mother in law still in "the truth"?" With a smile, I replied, "No, she's one of Jehovah's Witnesses". I was being mischievous, but I was also refusing to play her word-game. To be one of Jehovah's Witnesses is to be in "the truth". An early question after meeting another Witness is usually, "And how long have you been in "the truth"?" Witnesses use the expression often. Can you think of a better reinforcement for a belief? It is like saying, "How long have you been right about everything?" (Which Witnesses think they are) Witness converts soon learn that they should answer "question and answer" meeting parts "in their own words". This means that they should not read answers verbatim from the paragraphs of The Watchtower or study book being used. Instead they should rephrase their answers. This does not mean that they will answer in their own words because they will still conform to the well- understood jargon phrases of Jehovah's Witnesses e.g. "Babylon the Great" which is the "world empire of false religion" instead of "all religion in this world which does not worship Jehovah through his organization and, according to the Society, has pagan origins from ancient Babylon". Sometimes a person who criticizes is suspected of secret sin. There can never be anything wrong with the organization. Therefore, the fault can only lie in you, the complainer, no matter how justified your criticism. To complain about matters of policy can be fraught with danger for the innocent who believes in truth and justice. A confidential letter to the national Branch Office, sincerely questioning doctrine or policy, will usually be forwarded to the local elders. If a serious problem exists in a congregation and someone brings it to the attention of the elders, but is not satisfied with their way of handling it (or more often, not handling it, while they "wait on Jehovah" to do what - something miraculous?) they may be accused of "rebellion" or "apostasy" to shut them up. If they do not take heed, disfellowshipping will prevent their voices being heard by others. Waste of resources within the organization---- human resources is squandered and talent wasted if a person "does not qualify" according to Watchtower policy and doctrine. Women never "qualify". The highest step a female can achieve is that of a door-knocking, foot- slogging missionary, or as the wife of a prominent Witness male. In this way alone, more than half the population is controlled. Make no mistake - as a human resource in the Watchtower Corporation, you are expendable. If you do not keep running forward with "Jehovah's chariot-like organization", you will be left behind. I could go on but I will stop here for now. Are Jehovah's Witnesses the subjects of mind-control? YES, THEY ARE!!
ilidio	Thursday, June 17, 2004 @ 9:53 AM
Man Man, dont be too harsh on Winsap about him not being allowed to post in here. We know that according to the WTBTS they shouldnt but the hypocrites can not help themselves. Indeed, it is very comical to have those idiotic clones posting all that crap just to entertain us. It just goes to show you how people from a very advanced society act like people from the Stone Age. They are so brained washed, or should I say brain dead that if the WTBTS told them that by jumping over the bridge they would be in paradise. All, without exception would do just that. Winsap said {{{{Jehovah's Witnesses and Child Protection Child abuse is abhorrent to us. This is in harmony with the principle recorded at Romans 12:9. Even one abused child is one too many. }}}} If sap had taken the time to read the scripture instead of just taking it from the watchtower he would have notice that the scripture starts like this LET LOVE BE WITHOUT HYPOCRASY On the other hand they dont know the meaning of hypocrisy do they?? The poor Jews spent 40 years wondering in the desert just because they were too proud to stop and ask for directions. How much longer will the poor JWs will wonder around before they can get out of the desert?? All their lives??? It sure seems that way.
	Thursday, June 17, 2004 @ 10:15 AM
I dont get this site at all. Theres clear direction from the bible stating there must be two witnesses before anything takes place. True not in every case, there is 2 witnesses. But still the elders are to encourage the victims to go to authorities. The elders arent police or parents so they aint gonna do it on the victims behalf. If thats something the victim wants to do, thats down to them. Even still, the elders have been given direction from the governing body that they still are reported to the branch office even if nothing can take place since 2 witnesses are not present. So whats all this about? ------- ----------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------silentlambs reply-The rape of children that is covered up and condoned by the governing body through the polices that are enacted in the congregation. Does that answer your question?
CONDOR	Thursday, June 17, 2004 @ 2:20 PM
The Thing with No Brain Bill, when I meet you, you will be surprised at how well you are able to remember the various pseudonyms I have used to address your fallacious website. What is most interesting is that you attract the likes of M.A.N and ilidio, whom as your proselytes have become a subject for Gehenna twice as much as yourself. Why? Besides misleading people, they really, really like the opportunity to rage knowingly against God himself. -------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-Could this be a threat?
AK	Thursday, June 17, 2004 @ 3:10 PM
Society's Rules I have read on this site over and over again, those who defend the WTBTS rules that allow children to be raped and victimized afterward. To those active witnesses who believe that the Society feels compelled to apply only scriptural rules in it's dealings with others think again; The Watchtower is peppered with rules about personal matters that are not even mentioned scripturally, but could result in your being expelled from the organization. They have written rules about where Bethelites can roam within the city of New York on their free time, rules about the amount of field service needed to be qualified to serve in certain capacities of service, rules about what portions of blood may be used and remain 'clean' in God's sight, rules about how to and when to form a 'judicial committee', a term that is not scriptural, rules about the type of sexual intercourse that a married couple may or may not engage in behind closed doors, rules about the proper way to study the Bible with others, rules about partys and who may or may not attend, how large they should be, whether or not you might serve alcohol at them, rules about who takes the lead in the service and when, unwritten rules and customs about the type of car you should buy to be 'spiritually minded', rules about the frequency of your home study program, rules about the type of grooming and clothing one should have, rules about speaking or not speaking to persons that have been expelled (these have changed repeatedly by the organization), rules about what consitutes an apostate, rules about dating customs, kissing, hand holding, being alone with someone without a chaperone. I could go on and on after 30+ years inside this organization. I never questioned them, and when I did I was immediately shunned as wicked without a trial or even an accusation, although I asked for the scriptural reasons for things I was seeing that were wrong... The point is; this organization has produced hundreds and maybe thousands of rules that are not drawn directly from the scriptures, when it suits THEM to do so. They often defend that right with the comment that 'principles' are involved. Certainly in the matter of childen being raped dozens of 'principles' could be sighted to show a need to establish proceedures and rules that are not directly stated in the Bible itself, but nature would tell you that they need to be in place to protect those who cannot protect themselves. The only possible reason NOT to create such safeguards is litigation from past failures. The Catholic Church has learned that sweeping the matter under the rug will eventually come to bear a heavy price. It will do so in this organization also. Many of us are now following the advise that has been so often given to those rape victims - we are 'waiting on Jehovah' to act, sure that he act in behalf of the 'little cildren'. Jesus defended them and he was a mirror image of his Father. Perhaps 'Jehovah is waiting' in this case, to see if those who claim to love and represent Him will act, or if they will force Him to act. They may not like the end result of the latter!!!!! Jeff
kimberly b	Thursday, June 17, 2004 @ 4:29 PM
about winsap After reading your cult induced brainwahed comments, i have come to the conclusion that you are one of them (a worthless, low self-esteemed brain dead child molestor that is under the protection of the Withcraft Temple of Satan, WTS). More than likely you are the chief of pedophiles, like your father who is commander in chief of the demons, satan the devil! And by the way, haven't your cult leaders told you to stay off the internet? Better yet, haven't they told you not to own a computer? Bill keep up the good work in exposing the real "truth" about these satanic led people!!!
Andy H,	Friday, June 18, 2004 @ 10:38 AM
In reply to AHK 29/5/04 I enjoyed your comments about the "degree of spitefulness and downright, deliberate cruelty" in your congregation. It mirrowed very closely the way I was treated by 2 young Witnesses back at the fall of 1993 prior to my study being stopped (one of whom is now an ex-Witness and recently tried to attack me when after I accepted an invitation to meet up and discuss these past events with him after I emailed him!) The level of bullying, humiliation and blatant intimidation I received was a disgrace and yet when I finally complained to an elder (I left the congregation in disgust and no-one could understand why) it was subtly implied that it was my fault and not theirs! There was a strong rumour that the 2 had been privately rebuked but nothing was ever confirmed by the elder in question and I received no apology. What shocked me most was the way they used a private study as a set-up so that they could verbally interrogate me about my aptitude towards the Truth- and it certainly wasn't readjustment in the spirit of mildness! The ministerial servant who took the study later told me that the decision to stop the study had already been taken the week before therefore effectively admitting that that final "study" was a set-up anyway! Can anyone blame me for leaving ?!!!
M.A.N.	Friday, June 18, 2004 @ 11:27 AM
Kudos to the supporters To all who continue to defend SL: Keep up the good work. Soon the wicked people who post here in defense of the WT will be shown up as the real satanic cultists they are. To all of you who defend the WT's child abuse policies: You had better be careful with your comments and actions. Your days are numbered, both your ability to belong to the WT and maybe your actual lives if you break the rule Jesus gave about judging the innocent and hoping they die. You just might die instead. When my work is done, over ONE BILLION people will have heard of this outrage. I'll publish a book, put it on the Internet, seek TV, radio, newspaper, and other media exposure. I'll email the information to everyone on the Internet. I'm a computer network engineer and know how. THE WT WILL BE EXPOSED!!
nene	Friday, June 18, 2004 @ 2:11 PM
Fools Would Enjoy this I feel sorry for you and your future. Accept the Truth, for there is disaster ahead for people with your attitude!
NN	Friday, June 18, 2004 @ 6:02 PM
Read Your Bible! To all of you that are repeating the "two witnesses argument" I would just like to say to You: Read the Bible, especially Deuteronomy 22: 25-27 you will see that according to the Bible a rape is a rape even if there are no witnesses.
ilidio	Friday, June 18, 2004 @ 8:08 PM
Condor, the thing with no brain! Condor, I searched the word condor in the dictionary and found the following:[[[[ \Condor\, n. [Sp. condor, fr. Peruvian cuntur.] (Zo["o]l.) A very large bird of the VULTURE FAMILY (Sarcorhamphus gryphus), found in the most elevated parts of the Andes. ]]]]] It goes so well with your personality. That says it all; you are of the vulture family (WTBTS) just waiting on a few bodies to feed on, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO FEED ON MINE, I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THAT. If you were not so blindly following the wtbts you would notice we are NOT against God, we are AGAINST child molesters and the ones that have created a safe harbor for them. How can you sleep at night knowing you are defending policies that allow children to suffer so much? Havent you got a heart??? You ought to be ashamed of yourself going from door to door misleading people. If someone is going to become a subject of gehenna, it will by you and your mates. Obviously Satan has you so blinded that you work for him thinking you are doing Gods work. Once the end comes you will be of the first to be a subject of gehena
	Saturday, June 19, 2004 @ 1:31 PM
Judging Is it just me, or does it seem as if lately there are so many attacks and counterattacks leading to judgementalism and more counterattacks going on? Anyway, it seems so counterproductive. I know that people need to vent, that many, many people who post here have a tremendous amount of pain and trauma that they have been carrying around inside themselves, and it is eating them up, and they need so desparately to get all that out. And they have a right to do just that. That's what Silentlambs is for. But, doesn't judgement itself belong to God? People are talking about Gehenna as if they are looking forward to seeing people suffering and dying. Regardless of which "side" people are on when they post to Silentlambs, this judgementalism feels very disturbing. At least to me.
KL	Saturday, June 19, 2004 @ 3:59 PM
To Jacob + Case Update The Elders already have a copy of the denial - they are named in the lawsuit as well and each received a copy. It should be fun. ******************As for my case, I have submitted a settlement offer and am awaiting their response. If all goes well, I will soon be in a MUCH better situation. While not even close to what he would have to pay if a jury decided the amount, it will hurt him like he used to hurt me. And although no amount of money could ever take away what that stupid cocksucker (literally!) did, it will definitely speed up the closure that I have waited for for 17 years. Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!! *************On a side note, I thought you would all get a chuckle at the nerve of this ex-elder. He actually wanted me to drop my lawsuit and deal with him Brother-To- Brother. What a f'ing jerk!!! If that's what he wanted, then he would have taken it upon himself to set matters straight with me a LONG LONG LONG time ago. He will never ever be my Brother again. Not to mention that then he turns around and tries to make me look bad because I am using an attorney who supports this so-called apostate website. Well, since I know he reads this site to check up on his perverted buddies who are mentioned here as well, to him I say - Now I'M f'ing YOU. How YOU like it?
ilidio	Saturday, June 19, 2004 @ 7:11 PM
To: nene Truth according to whom?? we have accepted the truth a long time ago. Truth that you are a cult. Truth that you harbor child molesters. Truth that you are ravenous wolfs in sheeps covering. Truth that you are all brain washed and can not think for yourselves as a result follow all the rules given by the jokers. Truth that you are told not to come to sites like this and here you are. Truth that you soon will be destroyed with all other false religion. Have forgotten any other truths???
L.L.B.	Sunday, June 20, 2004 @ 1:12 AM
Keep It Up Keep getting the message out. We must keep trying to save children from the Jehovah's Witness child molesters and the organized group the aids them in their evil deeds.
BV	Sunday, June 20, 2004 @ 4:09 PM
lie I think that there is no more child abuse in the organisation of JW then in any other church .I think even less.I visit a pentecoastal church , I think this abuse can happen anywhere where people are not aware.But Jehovahs witnesses are more aware because the whole world is watching them.But they can't prevent this thing from happening in private houses.I think you just want to accuse them of things like this because you want to oppose them.you are not doing a righteous thing .BV -------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- silentlambs reply-The evidence provided on this website proves your assumptions are wrong. Righteousness is defined as standing up for what is right, what do you stand for?
NN	Monday, June 21, 2004 @ 6:05 AM
to Judging So we hear the old arguments again; "you are just arguing because of that you are in such pain at the moment" and "please, let's not judge" and "the witnesses are no worse than anyone else" This really makes me sick and tired! First: I'm not in pain, but I hate hypocrazy and I do not think that any organization, especially not one that braggs about carrying the "Truth" to the world, should be allowed to continue its "abuse protection strategy" without being opposed. Secondly: About judging, the WT organisation is currently doing its outmost to judge the victims or anyone who dares to speak up to silence, either by scarring people of or by throwing them out of the organisation - hence silent lambs. Thirdly: The WT organisation is worse because contrary to other religious groups they continue to deny that the abuse problem even exists in their organization. They just call it "persecution" and continue to protect abusers, even if it costs them a lot of money and effort.
pl	Monday, June 21, 2004 @ 6:52 PM
it is everywhere Abuse is in all organizations, but there is such betrayal and pain when a child is told they are the only TRUE religion the only GOOD people the ONLY people that god LOVES and will SAVE, the witness child stands up for their beliefs at school etc, this abuse doesn't just shatter their belief system but there hope that there is anything at all true in the world, they have to live a lie, and they are told satan is the father of lies. It shatters the belief that that child is GOOD in god's eyes and worthy of life. All religions teach they are the chosen ones but not all teach still with such conviction that unless you are doing EXACTLY what god says (they say) such as meetings witnessing not smoking etc etc you will be destroyed at armegeddon oh and of course sex between a married couple is only acceptable and even petting is a sin, what is a child to think when some heavy petting is going on between him/her and an elder or brother/sister what if they protect them and not the child and tell the child things like they shouldn't have given the brother improper thoughts etc that the child has caused the problem hmmm every child suffers that has been abused not just witness kids this is true but the way a child heals is different for every child and the healing IS WORSE if the care givers deny the child, protect the abusers and there isn't adequate justice and more than likley any justice for the child and the child has to continue witnessing and giving talks from the platform. The witnesses are NOT wise when it comes to matters of child abuse (or pretty much on any matters) they say they are put in that position by GOD PRETTY HEAVY STUFF for a child to figure out for the rest of their lives. Silent Lambs is uncovering a dreadful problem and one that should never of been and the witnesses still like to think doesn't happen in their organization, people need to speak out, there has to be accountability for the potential for healing for the child.
KH	Monday, June 21, 2004 @ 8:38 PM
to BV I agree that abuse can happen anywhere where people are not aware. But the elders are NOT making the rest of the congregation or the public in general aware that there is a child molester among them. In my case the elders were well aware of my step-father's abuse on several other children before my mother married him but, never warned my mother about him. I ended up being abused for 6 years by this pervert. and when he was finally caught and my mother went to the elders they still did not warn the congregation about him. He was disfellowshiped for a very short amount of time and the anouncement they made was conduct unbecoming of a witness. There was no warning or making people aware of this pervert. You think that the whole world is watching JW's, is that why you feel the need to protect and cover-up for these child abusers? Well wait until these lawsuits start going to trial and the media expose JW's for what they truly are. Then the whole world will know that all you are is a cult that thinks you are better than everyone else. How dare you go preach door to door telling people you are the true religion!
angelo	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 12:29 AM
to whom it may concern i am a baptised Witness of Jehovah. of course, being a witness is not a passport to a sin free life. as an imperfect individual, we are bound to commit mistakes and some of them in horrendous form. if someone is using the organization as a safe haven just to satiate his or her sexual appetite, Jehovah God is alive and sooner or later he will execute his judgement to that unrepentant wrondoer, at HIS appointed time. the organization per se is unblemish, the individual members are the one responsible for their acts. my heart goes for the victims, but the organization is not to blame. it is the individual concerned, the party to the "crime" who must bear the brunt of God"s judgement.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 8:49 AM
To nn Thank you for that scripture. I had not noticed it before. You are right, there were NO WITNESSES. It must have been the girl's word against the rapist, unless he confessed. Why should he, knowing his punishment? I am including the three verses here: NWT Deut. 22:25-27: (25) If, however, it is in the field that the man found the girl who was engaged, and the man grabbed hold of her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her must also die by himself, (26) and to the girl you must do nothing. The girl has no sin deserving of death, because just as when a man rises up against his fellowman and indeed murders him, even a soul, so it is with this case. (27) For it was in the field that he found her. The girl who was engaged screamed, but there was no one to rescue her." Notice the girl was INNOCENT and the man was NOT. To everyone who screams bloody murder about two witnesses, please notice verse 27: "The girl who was engaged SCREAMED, but there was NO ONE to rescue her." How often did current abuse victims "SCREAM" inside or literally, but no one was there?? In other words, NO TWO WITNESSES!!!" And to finalize this point, the Mosaic Law died on the "cross" when Jesus died. So don't go quoting a 3,000 year old dead law as a defense for why elders can't do anything. The secular law doesn't require two witnesses. Again, I repeat: I am in the field of Psychology and am working toward my doctorate. You are wasting your time defending the "bible's righteous requirements" to me. First of all, your two witness dream is not "righteous". Secondly, the bible doesn't require it anymore. (If it did, I'd throw the entire book in the trash.) Thirdly, even if it did, this is a crime against Caesar and morality, not against a group of elders or the WT. So my message to them is: BUTT OUT!! If the WT chooses to "punish" a molester by DF'ing him and he can't pass microphones at meetings, who gives a damn?? How does that help the victim?? How will future possible victims be helped not to become victims?? By not letting the animal pass mikes?? By DF'ing him?? That's not the issue. The issue remains what SL has been saying all along. It's the policies of the WT. It's how the WT handles these cases. It's the lying and coverups. It's the WT knowing a person is a perverted pig and when he moves to a new congregation, the elders get the chance to protect THEIR children, but no one else does. Is that Christian?? If you think it is, call my office next year and make an appointment with my secretary. I know I can treat you because I studied "Abnormal Psychology". My daughter told a police detective what the molester did to her. He and another officer picked up the molester at his home at 6 pm and brought him in for questioning. After 20 minutes, they knew he was guilty. They went to arrest him and he tried to run. Bad move, the detective was 6'5" and he and the other officer made short work of him since he is 5'9". He was arrested for child abuse and resisting arrest. He was out on bail by midnight. He called us and tried to "work it out", but we told him where to go. His son, a MS and a pioneer and his son's wife, a pioneer, came over and tried to talk us out of pressing charges, saying, "If my daughter had been a year older, it would only be a misdemeanor". I told him what he could do. The son and daughter told the congregation my daughter was a liar and a whore. I asked him if he wanted to experience the resurrection first- hand. He wisely shut up. My wife and daughter had to move to another congregation. The molester was with an 18 year old girl, which may be legal, but is immoral since the molester was 53 years old and married, when the big-mouth son walked in on his father. He told his mother and she FINALLY divorced him, since he had been DF'd for adultery years before and was known as a sexual pervert throughout the circuit. When I heard how stupid the molester's wife and the son looked after this happened, I laughed so hard I almost broke a rib. The wife of the molester had known he was a molester and was visiting my home and didn't warn us. I know she will answer for that in the future. She had told me "The elders know he has a problem and they're working with him." Really??? And how successful were they?? He kept molesting!! This proves that elders are NOT THERAPISTS AT ALL, IN ANY AREA OF LIFE, PERIOD, END OF STORY!! I've spent too much time and work learning my field. No window washer or deliveryman is going to waltz in and do work that a person with a Master's or Doctorate degree should be doing. This is the arrogance of the WT, "We know more about everything and anything because we say so. The universe belongs to us because we say Jehovah gave it to us." Well, well, well. First of all, the WT doesn't own the universe. It will find out soon enough who does when the WT gets paid back for its conduct. Secondly, even if it did, it's policies are perverted. Two witnesses? My daughter went before the grand jury and they indicted the molester. She had no "two witnesses". The jury recognized molestation when they saw it. Less than one out of 100,000 children make up stories of molestation. The few that do are usually trying to get their father in trouble because he won't give them something. There are so few false alarms that I could count them on one hand. The molester pleaded guilty when he knew he would get worse if it went to trial. To conclude, to those out there defending the WT, I say the following: Stay off this site, you are hypocrites for being here since we are "tools of Satan" and "apostates". Also, don't waste our time or the hard drive space on the server that hosts this site. (I am a computer network engineer.) Third and final, if you want to do the right thing, contact SL and find out how you can help. Don't post comments that show that your IQ's are lower than plant life.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 8:56 AM
To pl Good points. There are good and bad people everywhere, in every country, of every race. That's not the issue. The WT says it is THE TRUTH and spits on the rest of the world. When you put yourself on a pedestal, you are asking to be knocked off, and as this is the WT's view, then they need to be knocked off hard and fast. Keep up the good work.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 9:02 AM
To KH Very good points. How can anyone with any moral sense defend the policy of the elders knowing a man is a molester and not even telling his wife, especially if there are children in the home?? What garbage these men are!! And the congregation should be told as well, as I've screamed for months. How can we be "cautious as serpents" when we don't know the danger?? To the WT: I swear you will burn for what you are doing. When this hits the New York Times front page in the near future, and I'll see it does, you will sit up and pay attention. If you don't, prison awaits you. I would never wish this on anyone since I won't sink to your level, but you might see some "molestation" you hadn't planned on. Things sometimes have a tendency to happen. You are being warned for the last time. Things are being set in motion that will bring you down. I've already started.
M.A.N.	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 9:08 AM
to angelo I don't know you and you might be new, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. First, the organization is guilty because it's policies allow the "individual" to get away with his perversions. Secondly, and I can't speak for others, I don't intend to "wait on Jehovah" any longer. Enough is enough. People are suffering in agony because of His due time. I don't care anymore. And I don't have to. Being an ex-JW doesn't obligate me to accept your beliefs in Jehovah or the Bible. In fact, the reason I no longer believe in God is because of this issue. So don't quote "gods" to me, I don't care. God's judgment is of no value right now when it is needed. I'm frankly surprised you weren't blasted for saying the organization is "unblemished", because most who make this claim are attacked for their ignorance. Someone was being nice to you. I suggest you use that as a chance to learn the real truth here. Get busy now or you will share in the blame.
MA	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 10:49 AM
AG's rehash The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation&&&&&. We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children&&.These 2 comments are typical of JWs in that they believe the whole world outside of the Org is lying in the power of Satan and so the worlds children are not a concern to them. If a child molester is Ded s/he would be let loose on the unsuspecting neighbourhood without anybody but a select few elders knowing why. If the victim (normally around the time they try to deal with it) is Ded then the Org can claim they where not of our sort (i.e. they are not our children and hence not our responsibility).
Cheri Romero	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 1:25 PM
To M.A.N. and illido You go boys!!!!!! You are speaking for me too. These defenders of the WTBTS are firstly not supposed to be on this site and are hypocrites and secondly they obviously need an education just like all of the rest of the Elders need an education. If they were educated they would know that window washers and butt wipers are not qualified to interrogate children who have been molested. Additionally, if they wanted REAL KNOWLEDGE, they would read the scriptures, just the scriptures and would discover what I have--that the WTBTS have their own agenda. They they would research the history of the WTBTS and would find out once and for all about the lies that they have told and are telling the world even as we speak. RESEARCH PEOPLE!!! FIND OUT FOR YOURSELVES WHAT THE TRUTH IS!!! SAVE YOURSELVES!!! GET FREE!!
NN	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 3:01 PM
to Angleo And another couple of "bad old arguments"! This time it is "wait on Jehova" and "only members are acting wrongly, not the organisation". Let me tell you this. A Bible believer is supposed to "wait on Jehova" when the oppression is coming "from outside", that is he or she is not supposed to fight outwards powers with violence, but to wait on deliverence from Jehova. But it is not applicable in cases of wrongdoings in the congregation! The congregation is supposed to act in a righteouss manner or else neither the Christ nor Jehova God will look upon it's members and itself as true believers. And I guess, this is what has happened with the Watchtower organisation, God has spitted theom out because of the vainglory they have caused his holy name. So if I were you I would not wait, I would run. And secondly, when an organisation is acting so clearly and unhesitantly as in the case of the WT organisation protecting "their precious pedophiles" of course the organisation is part in the criminal actions.
DEC	Tuesday, June 22, 2004 @ 3:32 PM
Angelo Pleeease! The JWs are just "imperfect individuals bound to commit mistakes"??? What a double standard! The witnesses self righteously sit in judgement of the world around them and condemn it for the VERY SAME things that are being done INSIDE the organization!! And you have the audacity to claim that the organization is without blemish! I waited for Jehovah to expose the sexual predator in my cong. after he molested my child. For years it was swept under the rug while he continued to molest more and more children until one sister finally went to the police and SHE was dfd. In the end the molester made the comment that he became a JW because he saw that it was "easy pickins for him". THAT'S the kind of organization you are defending....one that creates an atmosphe