silentlambs.org - Guestbook - Guestbook - October 2002

October 2002 Guestbook - Page 3

October 16, 2002

Comment: RMK please email me J_CHITO@msn. com . . . . john
October 16, 2002

Comment: Greetings, the guest book has been refreshed. All inappropriate posts have been filtered out from the archived posts. Each post made in this website is now being tracked by IP address. For those who continue to slander others beware if you post your identity ( a way to track you ) is being left behind. Death threats will be taken seriously and turned over to the proper authorities. This guest book is intended for healing, not for verbal battle. Soon code will be established that will track even the view and submit portion of the guest book and for those who are slanderous and dangerous, you will both not be allowed to view or post to this site. Your choices from here out establish your privileges. . . . . . webmaster
October 16, 2002

Comment: Webmaster, thank you for your efforts at improving the site for everybody. There has been a lot of nastiness around here and it was just the last straw when rmk was attacked about his sexuality. We certainly can't have that sort of thing, and regular posters who make a contribution to this site should feel free to be what they are.
October 16, 2002

Comment: Thank you webmaster for cleaning up the dirt. . . you are great! love, soapbox
October 16, 2002

Comment: Dear Webby: You have your work cut out for you tonight. . . thanks again for tidying up. I emailed you and when I came back, you already got to it. Thanks.
October 16, 2002

Comment: O. k, this is avishai. I said I wasn't going to respond, but I can't let this one slide. Anti-john,in answer to your question, your little buddy Anthony c aardvark threatened to kick elder bobs head in till his brains were leaking out on the floor. But, count yourself successful in getting the recognition you deserve. Anyway, I will reiterate that this site is about little children being raped & the people who have to deal w/ it later, them, their families, etc. When you really think about it, these children, not usually being baptized are really "associates" not full blown jw's, & that's why we have these mandatory reporting laws. You say "it's the parents responsibility to report!" Yes, that's true, they should. But for anyone to hide behind ecclesiastical privilege is so weak, sick & small. Yes, Parents "should" report these things. But, some of them are the ones molesting the kids. Some belong to wacko cults, like the hare' krishnas, who are also being sued for the same kind of cover ups. Did those kids choose to be in a wacko cult? No, they didn't. In the jw's, a 4 yr. old, a mere associate doesn't have the same rights as a baptized witness. He didn't choose to be there. If he chooses later, on his own that it is not the path he wants, he'll still be shunned. It's about deliberate flouting of federal & state law as a PRECEDENT of the wbts. Ignore the morons, but not too much, zealots are a dangerous thing. Just look at the taliban, who started out as a fairly peaceful fundamentalist group. How far of a stretch would it be to convince a jw, or several jws, who had been taught all of his life that all non-believers were to be viewed as evil, & all df'd & da'd people were to be viewed as dead, to convince them that "new light" says to "Help god out in armageddon by killing unbelievers? The totally blind statements, & threats of violence on this website by jws & their defenders prove my point that the jw's are perfect manchurian candidates who will win by any means necessary to force their beliefs on others, just like al-queada
Comment: Sorry, refer to some of my earlier posts, there are lots of good people & non-offenders. I was trying to point out that it is the power structure that causes the arrogance of a "god given right" to ignore caesars law, using loopholes if necessary. And, as I said, it's not just jw's doing it, it's contemptible across the board. Also, do you think every taliban is "bad"? I'm sure there are some basically kind & decent people there, but it is there "I am right!" philosophy that allows them to oppress people& ignore international law. And they believe just as strongly as you that they are GODs chosen religion, everyone else is evil. The phrase " I AM RIGHT!!" has caused more pain & suffering in the world than any other. Oh, sure, it takes on different forms, like "manifest destiny" or "The chosen race" or "The new Jerusalem", but it's really all the same b. s. that's gotten people hurt & babies raped & villages burned since the dawn of time. Could you see yourself practicing ethnic cleansing? No? The ancient israelites did, Killing everything in an entire country, bashing infants heads against rocks. Nice picture, huh? Well, it's not much different w/ covering up molesting, It's just that, like disfellowshipping, it's a different kind of death. One is spiritual, the other emotional, spiritual, & psychological, often ending in physical death due to suicide or self destructive behavior.
October 16, 2002

Comment: sounds like the web master is getting more and more on top of things here. . that's wonderful. . it's ok to have debates. . but when it gets crazy here that's enough. . . love to the lambs. . . . john
October 16, 2002

Comment: Hey,webmaster, what happened to the post between my two posts saying not to diss on jws? avishai
Comment: For those of you who like to do research from authentic ORIGINAL Watchtower documents, dozens are available at a certain very well-know auction site. You know the one I'm referring to. There you can find tons of out-of-print, error-riddles literature to add to your spiritual "arsenal". Lawrence. By the way, thanks, webmaster, for putting the fear of God into anti-john and the other like-minded ,vicious posters. It will be wonderful not to have to deal with them anymore. John, I found your email addy. Will be in touch. Lawrence
October 17, 2002

Comment: Just wanted everyone to know i am still around a lot has been happening the last few months so i haven't been able to be online much. I have been reading post and i can see we still have the doubters and trouble makers. Some people just need to grow up and wake up more abuse takes place with in churches then people realize or even wanna admit and until we get real and admit its happening those people are gonna keep suffering and i for one am not gonna sit back and watch them hurt. I was a victim of child sexual abuse from my dad for 9 yrs and i know the pain and i am here if anyone needs a friendkingskid2004@juno. com -Penny
October 17, 2002

Comment: WEBMASTER. . . . . . You are fantastic!!! Thanks for your time and effort.
October 17, 2002

Comment: CLEAN UP TEAM TO GUEST BOOK 4!!! HEY GUYS YOU BETTER GET DOWN HERE. IT'S NOT PRETTY.
October 17, 2002

Comment: GROW UP PEOPLE SHEESH you don't believe us fine then why come here and slander us? I have never lied about my abuse and i don't believe others on here have either CAN'T HANDLE TRUTH? THEN STAY AWAY. - Penny
October 17, 2002

Comment: penny, I don't like JW's being slandered on this public site for all the world to see. I used to be one and most of them are good people, not child molesters.
October 17, 2002

Comment: I need to write this because i was rereading some of the post of october and i really need to speak out as a person that's been molested over and over for 9 yrs. The person said just get married and get over it and have kids. WELL tell me how to do that when i am so afraid of even a man touching me now and i am 38 yrs old and hate sex want no part of sex because when i was being forced to do it i was hurt and so now i wont do it cause the only memory of sex i have is IT WAS PAINFUL so telling someone just to marry is not the answer either because taking this kind of stuff in a marriage is not so good either what man wants to put up with a female that is afraid like i would be? NONE so people think before u write things here Webmaster i am sorry if i got to descriptive Penny
October 17, 2002

Comment: to the person that commented to me you may have been a good one but there are a lot of them out there abusing and molesting and they need to be exposed and besides jw's are a false cult and many are learning this Penny
October 17, 2002

Comment: Lets face the facts. The silentlambs web site is only a slice of the pie in respect to what is wrong with the Watchtower society. They allow people to be hurt by turning a blind eye. But they hurt other people with broken families, lies, cover ups, and mental cruelty. This religion makes a joke of truth, by holding such high standards in some areas then turning around in the same breath with abuse of its own members. I think the organization is nearing the tipping point, with declining membership or zero growth in developed countries.
October 17, 2002

Comment: *****the mole*****if it is true that now those who come here to do evil and stir up trouble are to be asked to leave its a great day in conquering evil. I have brought my knowledge and my wealth of experience to help those who are xjw's and those who are current to know that even though I'm trapped in my religion for family reasons, i can still speak out. i may have to hide my true id because of the position i hold in my hall but i am still human and will continue to alert those of the cancer that has come to us from the inside the organization (brooklyn). I will always ask for reformation and continue to point out the neglect and ignorance so that someday the headquarters will see that i will not go silent in the dark!. . . . ****the mole***
October 17, 2002

Comment: Hi Penny. Glad to see you back! Keep speaking out and people will not be so blind. I find people are just uninformed. It is the silence that has been kept for so long that aloud things to become what they have. All we have to do is say No that We will Not be Silent One more time then They say that No one cares. Only they are apathetic. I care. And, I am not alone. -Jayson
October 17, 2002

Comment: To The Mo le: I do not know your situation. What position do you hold in the Hall? Are you trapped because of immediate family? How did you come to the conclusion that something was wrong? Do you believe most of what is taught from the society still?HAS
October 17, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER"We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticism and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave's provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord's visible organization and not be so foolish as to pit against Jehovah's channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings. "(WT Feb 1 1952 80)AND WHO MADE THEM GOD??? I WILL THINK AND I WILL FEAL. TOO BAD WATCHTOWER. PEOPLE DON'T BUY YOUR CRAP ANYMORE.
October 17, 2002

Comment: Hey Jason thanks for the welcome back good to see you brother and yes i will continue to speak out because it does bring healing to know that others understand and have been there. Penny
October 17, 2002

Comment: WE WILL NEVER STOP EXPOSING THE WATCHTOWER FOR WHAT IT IS!!! KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT.
October 17, 2002

Comment: ***the mole*** I'm glad a positive question. thank you. When i became a M. S. i was exposed to something that left a bad impression back in 1999. there was a divorce and the issue i debated with the elders is how can there be more than three witnesses in an adultery issue? soon after when franz came out with his second book they acted as if it was the book of horror. the book passed from hand to hand until i was brave enough to read it and then i realized that brother franz had the same concerns i did, so i wrote him. then another M. S. was accused of molesting a young boy. One night the other M. S approached me during a picnic and said he was accused of this. he didn't know that me and the boy's mother worked out at the same gym. i asked her what happened and then she began to cry and told me the whole story. since then i have doubted the sincerity of the elders. i then wrote a letter to my family who are all witnesses about my grandmother and now i am under serious scrutiny. . . since then i have waited for a site like this to speak out and tell everyone what see and have learned. . . ***the mole***
October 17, 2002

Comment: rmk, your 10/12/02 post: I never asked you or anyone else to pray for the WTS, GB or ME. Also, I do not pass judgment on ANYONE'S experiences, whether in book form or here or face-to-face. Each one has their own perception and feelings. If that's the way they feel, then, that's the way they feel. No one should take that away from anyone - unless each person, herself or himself, has a different point-of-view and decides to change their mind about this or that. Changes made any other way are not genuine. - Janice
October 17, 2002

Comment: Josh, your post on 10/16/02: My point exactly. A person who has learned to have respect people will not make fun of, ridicule, a boy or man that has a girl's name. Actually, they wouldn't make fun of or ridicule anyone for any reason. - Janice
October 17, 2002

Comment: To all: I have notified the webmaster of the latest postings. To anyone coming on here for the first time, this is not typical of this site PLEASE don't be offended and leave ignore this until the guilty parties can be blocked and hopefully more.
Comment: awwwww they cleaned it up, too bad :(
October 17, 2002

Comment: ich bin kein praktizierender Zeuge Jehovas, wohl aber in kenntnis über die lehre weil ich mit ihr aufwuchs. meine eltern brachten mir und meinen geschwistern bei worum es sich bei "unserer religion" handelt und es war nicht immer leicht in der schule "anders" zu sein . . . aber eines möchte ich hier klar sagen - NIEMALS HÄTTE MEIN VATER ODER MEINE MUTTER ES GEDULDET WENN IN UNSERER UMGEBUNG SO ETWAS GESCHEHEN WÄRE ! dies wäre eine sehr schlimme sache gewesen und hätte sofort zur folge gehabt das wir kinder erfahren hätten was derjenige getan hat und das das falsch ist. den zeugen vorzuwerfen solche praktiken wären an der tagesordnung und sich dabei gegenseitig zu decken ist finde ich sehr weit hergeholt. ich kenne keine fälle und kann somit geschehene auch nicht dementieren, natürlich ist es auch möglich das es unter den zeugen pädophile gibt, aber es ist sicher nicht teil der religion und sozusagen "normal". abschliessend möchte ich sagen das mir die erziehung die mir meine eltern zukommen ließen ich heute noch geniesse, da sie mir ein sehr offenes und objektives weltbild gegeben haben. ich bin nur zufällig auf diese seite gestossen und bin wirklich verwundert , darum schreibe ich nun auch diese zeilen - weil ich ihnen mitteilen möchte das es auch Zeugen bzw. kinder von zeugen gibt die nicht geschändet wurden und die stolz auf ihr bekenntniss sind. grüsse aus Ö. Peter
October 18, 2002

Comment: To the Mole we all have shepherding calls doesn't mean that we've done something wrong though. And it depends on what you've said of course. Well people how do we really know what is true and what is false?i guess really only the person who writes it knows whether there lying or not. What i find funny is after going back to either august or Septembers post i saw that someone had written that they'd been abused by bill bowden and everyone was going what a liar but if someone says something about any other witness and its the truth very interesting indeed. So who do we really believe?Regards Josh.
October 18, 2002

Comment: Janice. It is certainly not for the name you chose for yourself that people ridicule you. It is for your hypocrisy twisted thinking and outright deception. Whoever is on the side of JWD is evil because the WT Society is EVIL. Reading your posts makes it abundantly clear where you chose to belong. Here is the address of LAWRENCE HUGHES. 20161 CALGARY PLACE R. P. O. CALGARY,ALBERTA,CANADA. he is the one in charge for suing the WT in GLOBAL CLASS ACTION SUITE. Write to him and join so you can be compensated for your suffering from the hand of the WT Society. His email:LawrenceH@cpvgroup. com I have his web site as well and will give it to you in a sec when I find it. RMK
October 18, 2002

Comment: Here it is. If you want to know what Mr. Hughes can do for you go to www. watchtower-victims. org It is very exiting. This month he is going to fight 4 different cases against the wt. 2 days ago he had a meeting with 4 lawyers who specialize in Class action suites against cults and they are very interested in joining the consortium in the States. He asked me to tell all my friends that he wants to hear from you. Wouldn't that be nice to see the WT belly up in our time?rmk
October 18, 2002

Comment: Peter seine October 18, 2002 post - Dankescho(e)n. Diese frage is sehr schwer. Es ist auch aufgerichtet ins alles die welt und bei leute auf yeder lebensweg. Es ist besonders schwer weil die "licht" ins die welt ist auch ins diesen schlamn. Das die Wachtrum mochte zwei zeugen ins eine privat verbrechen ist nicht wirklicht und unbillig. Es ist nict moral. Ich glaube die opfern aber der ist eine paar leute hier das ist bose und schmalern die ausgabe. Ja schule war schwere, aber es macht mich stark und gibt mich gut charakter. Die leute hier das ist immer auf angreifen macht die leute das mochte helfen hochnasig. Es ist night gut fuer die verletzen leute. Ich mochte die Wachtrum richtig machen. Entshuldigen meine Deutsche ist nigh schule Deutsche. - Janice
October 18, 2002

Comment: Thank you rmk. I will do my part. And I think it would be nice to free current and past JW's from the prison-cave that now wait for their-our destruction. But, it took Moses 40 years to get his people to shake off the slave mentality that they had. And that was imposed slavery. This type of slavery is one that they willingly stay in. They like the cage. They kiss the chains. They will not see of another way. We can't free them only they can free themselves. But, we will be there for them when they finally do. -Jayson
October 18, 2002

Comment: To all posts that submit in foreign languages. PLease keep this guest book in english. Other web sites are under construction where you can post in other languages to those guest books. Since we do not speak other languages than english, and can't translate what is said in that foreign language all foreign language posts must be removed. Sorry Webmaster
October 18, 2002

Comment: Comment: Peter seine October 18, 2002 post (IN ENGLISH) - Thank you. This matter is very serious. It is also rampant in all the world and in people of all types. It is especially serious because the "light" of the world also has these problems. That the Watchtower wants 2 witnesses in a very private crime isn't realistic or reasonable. It's not moral. I believe the victims but there is a small number of people here that are hateful and cause those who want to help (the victims) to stay in the background. Yes, school was difficult but it made me strong and gave me good character. It's not good for the injured people. I want the Watchtower to make this matter right. Excuse my German because it's not learned in school. - Janice October 18, 2002
October 18, 2002

Comment: Janice, tell us how you are going to help the victims of the WT. rmk
October 18, 2002

Comment: In support of Janice - on his view of the world: VH-1 is producing a video with a starring the inmate musician from a correctional facility in Pennsylvania who shot two young women(teenagers) to death in the back. Included in his rock band are rapist and another "lifer. " This will be viewed on national television. K-mart, the family store, sells music that is so violent, so graphic sexually, that it is unfit to be sold, or heard. ****It is a very sick world that feeds on deviant behavior and then feeds it more. **** I live this sheltered life and when I come out to see what is happening it is beyond what anyone could have imagined (although someone did imagine & then produced "images"). There is no answer but God's Kingdom and while I support "fighting" for what is right, one of these days Our Father will be so grieved with the people on this earth He will stop it. *** We are threaten with chemical warfare, nuclear warfare, there will be 14 million children orphaned in Africa shortly due to AIDS, we have american men vacationing in countries to have sex with children, we have MTV idolizing murders and rapists, people addicted to all sorts of drugs, & pornography - a continuous feed frenzy out of control. Don't leave God out of the picture, we are to remake ourselves in His image, hold on to the hand of Jesus only. To all those in pain never forget that your tears will be no more and the memory of it will be no more. There is no job, husband, family, financial security, health, or religion that can save us - only Jesus can do that.
October 18, 2002

Comment: Nothing that you stated has anything to do with the Jehovah Witness policy of protecting edifies or abusers. It does nothing to protect the children from farther exploitation. It does not bring the issues here to justice. You are blaming the world as an excuse to excuse your religion and that is bunk!-Jayson
October 18, 2002

Comment: who is the one in support of Janice? There is no name to the post. The content is not specific as Jayson pointed out. No help or constructive thought can be expected of Janice. He tries to mislead and obstruct facts and true issues we are dealing with. He is a faithfully servant of "Jehovah" the Borg. rmk I sent my email to John at the address he gave above. I wonder if I was trapped by one of our "friends" here by writing to John. I am going to call the police and instruct them that if ever anything happens to me they should look to JW for answer.
October 18, 2002

Comment: One question for BIO: If you are so happy and have so righteously put your abuse behind you and are living such a wonderful life, what the heck are you doing HERE? We "come back" to a place where the talk is all about sex abuse matters? Obviously, according to your OWN description, you should be long gone from here, grandma! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: GOD BLESS SOAPBOX for being "right on" and understanding and expressing EXACTLY the needs of survivors which are: VALIDATION first and foremost, Being HEARD, No More FORCED Silence (not even by "Job's so-called-friends" like BIO who in that Superior-Sounding-Way is trying to SILENCE US again), No More Re-victimization by ANYone, etc. Soapbox, you always say it so well indeed! Thank you! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: LOL @ Buster for using the phrase, "Hunky Dory"! :-D We must be from the same generation. Too funny! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: TO: "I am listening" --- Well, unless you are the POPE (see NY Times article from today 10-18-02) and/or your name is Theodore Jaracz, et al. , then You (WTS) Is NOT listening, and HAS NOT been listening for 20 YEARS. So, YES, it WAS/IS necessary to speak out PUBLICLY to "get their attention" so they may "wake up" and take responsibility for their crimes, which they still have NOT done. Are you EMBARRASSED to have the gory truth revealed to the PUBLIC? If so, then it is people like YOU who, even unwittingly, condone and allow abuse to continue. IT MUST BE SPOKEN ABOUT. SILENCE is the ENEMY of children, not their friend. SILENCE aids and abets the ABUSERS. So why would you even say such a thing? /SLC ----- "I am Listening" wrote: It's not necessary to GO PUBLIC with child abuse stories to be healed. I certainly am listening, and if the victims' parents, elders,police, welfare workers did not listen then they are reprehensible in the sight of God. October 14, 2002" ----- P. S. to "I Am Listening": To "be healed" is NOT the only & main reason for going public! You are missing the point! GOING PUBLIC PUTS PRESSURE where it is needed MOST: On Those RESPONSIBLE for Forcing Silence, For Covering-Up, For Ignoring, i. e. , whomever they are: parents, elders, social workers, Governing Body Members, etc. But, of course, if your head is stuck in the Quick-Sand of DubDumb, then you can't see that because JWs are so alienated from the REAL WORLD. Well, here's a little lesson on how it works: Media is the FRIEND of the people, not Satan's Tool as the WTS wants you to think. Silentlambs speaks to Media to EXPOSE the problem (just like any good investigative reporter on your 6 o'clock news will expose that fraudulent furniture mover in your neighborhood). Then with this PUBLIC EXPOSURE comes PRESSURE from the COMMUNITY AT LARGE and/or Law Enforcement to force the GUILTY PARTY to acknowledge the problem, take responsibility for the problem, correct the problem. Get it? -- Additionally, EXPOSING the problem PUBLICLY is also EDUCATIONAL for the community at large who may have been in the DARK, including but not limited to parents, social workers, ELDERS, householders in your territory, etc. Remember, Daniel said knowledge would become abundant in the "last days," so why are you trying to SUPPRESS the outworking of SCRIPTURE? By all means, LET THE KNOWLEDGE BECOME ABUNDANT! SILENCE IS THE ENEMY and AIDS & ABETS THE ABUSERS TO CONTINUE THEIR DIRTY DEEDS. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about abuse KNOWS THAT much. /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Hi MOLE: Great quote from the "Worship" book, i. e. , "AVOID THINGS THAT DRAW UNDUE ATTENTION TO SELF. . . " I would say that is GREAT ADVICE for a pervert, molester, abuser and pedophile. If THEY would stop drawing attention to THEMSELVES by doing dirty deeds to children for their own selfish gratification (GB members included), this website would not be in existence. Therefore, they should practice what they preach. /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: The various religions are like different roads converging on the same point. What difference does it make if we follow different routes, provided we arrive at the same destination. - -- Mahatma Gandhi
October 18, 2002

Comment: AMEN, Buster! /SLC ---- Back on 10/14 Buster asked for Someone to say AMEN! ;-)
October 18, 2002

Comment: Hey Soap: Interesting about it not being Faith but PRIDE! I never thought of it like that! I most definitely was a way-too-proud (to the point of self-righteousness) JW "back in the day. " ;-) /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Anti-John can't get enough reaction to his posts, so he creates ELDER BOB @ POOP. com in order to fight with! Pretty funny! :-D /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: I didn't look at the site, but the title cracked me up: ELVES ON TRICYCLES. com. /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: BLESSINGS to The MOLE! Yes, thanks for the info this week. We don't mind. Pretty TACKY about the command from WT, INC. to "rat on each other. " How low is that? Fear, Paranoia, Suspicion is all that breeds among the "friends. " ----- Example: Oops! I better rat on you before you rat on me! Is what you are doing worthy of me ratting on you? Or should I wait? What shall I do? Will you please rat on yourself so I don't have to rat on you? --- etc. etc. This is the kind of stuff the friends have to fill their heads with. Ridiculous. Let each man render an accounting for HIMSELF to God. . . And didn't Jesus ask: Am I my brother's KEEPER? --- Give 'em Hades, MOLE! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: john's email is good and so is he - don't worry. ************It was me who said that Janice had a point about the world. . . if you read my last sentence I also said that religion can't save anyone (WTS is a religion). . . there is no excuse for pedophiles or A WTS protecting them or a world that thinks it's okay to go to Thailand for sex with a child. I don't want to leave my name. There is nothing to argue about: the world sucks - and we are all when stripped, lonely and in need of God. ***the most negative thing I said was I was in support of Janice in regards to the world. . . . I think he is confusing most of the time too. But what happened here is that a month or more ago. . . if I supported anything good coming from someone who doesn't support SL 100% I would be criticized. This didn't happen before. And this began the beginning of how negative this site has become. First you have to establish what people have in common. . . . . anyway, I have an old saying "I don't dance for a dollar. " Janice is right the whole world is debauched so much so that to him the WTS looks "good. " Not everything needs to be argued. Not every JW is bad and not everyone not a JW is good. What is the big deal? Maybe I should hate all men because a lot of them are perverts.
October 18, 2002

Comment: Religion is not a road with any destination except chaos . . . quote by soapbox. Please feel free to use it!
October 18, 2002

Comment: Dear HUDSON, FLORIDA, visitor! Thanks for your encouraging comments about this website; and for also sharing your story. We are very sorry to hear about your Mom, and how shabbily she was treated once she came forward about her abuse. Yet, as usual, the perv gets his hands shaken and continues on as before. SICK SICK SICK!!! Would you like to be added to the mailing list for this website to be kept updated as to future events? Please see the home page, ADD ME TO EMAIL. And I'm glad John (thanks John) gave you Kim's info. She is someone you CAN trust! Hope you'll come back again. Blessings/SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Thanks Jayson for your quote. I liked that/SLC: "When one man says, "No I will not," Rome begins to fear. " -Sparticus
October 18, 2002

Comment: BTW, John, that was a great summary further back of the list of all of the WT "truths" from way back. Some of those little diddy's I'd never heard before. LOL! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Hi Josh! Hi Rich! Hi RMK! Hi Buster! (Don't want to leave anyone out). Now for the ladies: Hi Jesika! Hi Linda! Hi Soapbox! And Janice -- well. . . IT's a Mystery! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Who is Anthony? Someone told him to put on his PJ's and go to bed. . . What was that all about? /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: And what the heck was Bio talking about Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)? (Or was she talking about International Bible Students??? LOL!) I must have missed the post where that was originally mentioned. . . but she said it was a "nervous condition" and/or food allergies, etc. and not caused by rape. Well, I'm beginning to wonder more and more about her college/psych degree; i. e. , One is Raped. One becomes Nervous due to the Rape. One Gets IBS. -- How about that? A connection after all! --- Of course, the IBS - Int'l Bible Students - could also make one Very Nervous, which can lead to chronic stress which can lead to IBS and also a weakened immune system which can lead to allergies. . . So, IBS or IBS -- works either way. Maybe it's time for a few side courses on physiology and/or biology? /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Above nameless Janice defender. (1) I know that she can speak for herself if she so chooses. You again simply say nothing. About Thai's your right and they call prostitution"patriotic" and that is sick. But I am not a Thai nor would I pay for sex. So again your argument does not apply here. (to us) These people (sl's) were raped; and the Thai issue is condemned all over the world. I know as I was made aware of this in all basic Soc. classes in college. Again it is (((condemned))). But inside the WT this issue is ignored. Thus this site was born. The wt has evil doctrine that binds people in sin. Sin that is not forgivable because jw's refuse to acknowledge it. Here it can not be ignored, it is fact and if you still continue to support the (b)organization then you are guilty by hypocrisy. You may not understand that today. You may hate me today. But someday you will understand. I will not do anything but support the victims of this abuse and I condemn ALL Jehovah Witnesses so long as they support the doctrine that allows evil to run amuck inside your religion. If you are silent then you are guilty. Because if you are silent then the bad "evil" people can continue to do their exploitation. We should be united. There is not room for debate here. It is that simple. -Jsyson-End my discussion with you
October 18, 2002

Comment: I'm thinking some of the really bad posts have been removed, 'cuz I don't see anything about RMK being homosexual, so maybe they were removed. Good idea, though, guys/girls to take a break when it becomes too much. I've done that this week. It helps. Needed to get other stuff done as well. MOLE: Blessings this weekend. There are some great threads at www. jehovahs-witness. com on how to handle such "shepherding calls" when you know they are coming to ask if you still believe it is "God's Organization" or not. . . They give some great advice, lots of people have been thru it. Of course, your answers and strategy will depend on if you want to "stay in," or if you want to "fade away" in your own time and way; or if you don't care if they DF you or not, etc. If you have the time and/or the inclination, you can do a "search" at J-W. com or threads such as "Shepherding Call," or "Elder Visits," or threads like that. They are always fascinating the advice that is given. Good stuff! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Looks like RJ is BACK! (See 10/18/02. . . the NAMELESS post moaning about his having been driven away due to criticism of not being 100% on the side of Silentlambs). /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: WELCOME BACK PENNY!!! So nice to hear from you again. We appreciated your passionate and straight-forward posts. Don't worry! You did GOOD! Feel free to express yourself any time! We love you! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: CONGRATULATIONS to WEBBY for posting the new rules! I'm glad to see they are "out of the bag" and now we all know. You guy(s) are on the ball and we appreciate it! /SLC
October 18, 2002

Comment: Thank you for the welcome back its really good to be here were i can express and know that i am loved and not put down. I had a lady in my life this past week dump me cause i didn't get over my past yet and abuse. She said its be long enough. Since when do people decide when we should be over this? oh and not to sound dumb what's SLC? lol Penny
October 18, 2002

Comment: Jayson: God's kingdom has nothing whatsoever to do with the WTS. I think that you mis-read what I said. I am not a JW. I don't sign my name all the time. . . my choice. I am 100% supporter of SL, but I don't have to hate someone who isn't. Janice made a good point and I shared some information that I had -stuff that is disturbing me lately that does relate because it is about how shameless people are - what would not have been thought of without shame, is now "normal everyday life" without an ounce of shame. I find it interesting that if I sign my name I get one reaction and if I don't I get another reaction. Sometimes I just don't feel safe enough to sign my name. . that is the truth.
October 18, 2002

Comment: Josh: you referred to a post that accused Bill Bowen as an Elder being abusive. Have you read Franz? His "crisis of conscience" came slowly but he did leave eventually. Franz was involved in serious decisions that devastated people. He redeemed himself by leaving and publishing his book. None of us lives long without hugh misdeeds having been committed by us. That is why the truth is so important. We are surrounded with lies. The bible can sharpen your perceptive powers, and so can the Holy Spirit. There is no such thing as just one lie - the WTS does not teach truth. Partial truth is not truth. Read the bible. Pray for truth. Don't depend on anyone else but the Father to teach you. I know about spreading lies thinking it was truth. Such shame I feel. soapbox
October 18, 2002

Comment: No name you are just playing games. Stop. I do not care if you are, were, or are not a Jehovah Witness. I care that you want to dilute the issues of the Jehovah Witnesses and how they handle cases of child abuse, and child rape. We are not here to address the injustice of the "world. " (I condemn it) I do not think that you are so narrow and shallow minded that you did not know that before your first post. -Jayson- If you are truly here to offer some support to (Sl) then thank you. But we need to end our discussion.
October 18, 2002

Comment: No name-Of course maybe I am wrong. Maybe I am over reacting. Maybe I'll take some time off from coming here. Maybe then I will see things differently. If so then an apology will be given. If not well, i hope we/I will see things with more agreement at some point. If we both support the lambs then there will be common ground. (On sabbatical)-jayson
October 18, 2002

Comment: Penny: You sound good! Have you looked up patiencepress. com yet??? She has much to say - "it takes as long as it takes. " You know you don't need people in your life that are not real friends. Some people don't understand and that's okay, but you don't need them around. I will look for email and email you my address. Love, soapbox
October 18, 2002

Comment: Penny, you will NEVER forget what happened to you. However, at some time you will learn to put the responsibility and blame on the one or ones who are responsible, the perpetrator(s), and not you. It won't matter what anyone else will say because you will know how to reply with conviction from the heart. You will look at such ones directly into the eyes without flinching and let them know that you know you are the victim and you are not responsible for what happened to you. At that point, hardly anyone will try and challenge you because they will know that you know the truth about what happened to you. Those who put you down or challenge you may be looking to rub salt into your wounds because they enjoy your pain and torment. Some are ignorant but there are a lot more people around then we would guess that like to know our troubles so that they can hurt us with them. Also, there are a lot of kind, compassionate and loving men who will not hurt you. They will listen to you and want to cherish and protect you. If you want a friend who will be your husband, you can find him - when you're ready. As to the person you thought was your friend but felt you've had enough time to get over it, that's how most people are and that's why it's important to be in a good support group. It's not even predictable when you'll feel more pain than usual and need to talk to someone and get comfort. "Regular" people can't deal with the ups and downs of the emotions. There can be a lot of reasons for that. They may have been through trauma and finally gotten over it, perhaps without help, and don't remember the pain and time involved. It can be that they know how much precious time is spent and how much power the abuser gets over one by allowing oneself to relive it over and over and be pained and crippled by it and they - at this point in their life - know that it's not worth spending your time on it. They may not be sympathetic to such people and difficulties. They may have had the same happen to them and they just kept it inside of themselves and kept going with their life but they never dealt with it. It's really important to learn to not let other people hurt us. The truth of the matter is that they will if we let them. There are a lot of people out there that inflict pain on others, whether they realize it or not. You can tell it's a lack of caring if you tell them that they hurt you with what they said and they tell you that you took it the wrong way instead of sincerely feeling bad about hurting you. As you gain confidence within yourself about the crime and the criminals that perpetrated this crime against you, you will be able to view people with more objectivity. You won't feel the need to explain yourself to others. You'll know you're just as good as anyone else and that you're a survivor. Most of us are survivors. Some of us just don't like being reminded of it, especially when they've put it and the crime and the criminals behind us and have moved on with our lives. We just do not want to give them power over us so we won't give them any time in our minds and hearts. THEY are HISTORY and we won't let them to continue to victimize us by our letting them monopolize us and continue to have power over us by our letting ourselves dwell on the act and hurt. It comes back but we fight it out of ourselves. You're not there yet. You will be. - Janice
October 18, 2002

Comment: Jayson: I can address any issue that is relevant to me about this issue. . . you are not the boss here!!!!! I have been posting for one year and anyone who knows me knows that I do not dilute this issue. I want to be free to express myself. You are being oppressive and very rude to someone who supports SL. Maybe if I knew more about you Jayson, I would understand why you find me so offensive. Why would you want to alienate me, who supports silentlambs? Because I don't want to destroy the WTS - I mean I won't cry if they go, but my life is too precious to be bothered. But if I can help open eyes, be a support, direct people to real help this I will do. I also come here to share what disturbs me, or hurts me or some insight I might have - and I have a right to do that without someone taking what I say out of context and attacking me. That is the same kind of bs that they do at the KH! If a JW's opinion isn't exactly the way it is suppose to be 100% - they are out. You will not succeed in telling me what I can say unless it is truly wrong - then I would listen. Not everyone cares if the WTS is completely wrong - for some of us the focus is more about having a safe place for SL to speak and express, help them find the help they want and are ready for. . . sometimes it is just letting them know I hear them. But don't tell me to shut up or be rude to me. I am very resourceful person and who has helped people personally here. Please let's try to be friends. The first time I stopped using my name, was about two months ago and it was because of your direct rudeness to me. It intimidated me and I just hate that. It use to be there was none of this EXCEPT from the JW defenders. It made me very unhappy when a SL supporter started ridiculing me. Oh, well. I only have so many hours and so much energy: I devote it to being a support to anyone who is hurting. Some days I hurt, too. If you read between my lines, you would see that I am hurting too for all the garbage: I have children and grandchildren. The world is about as ugly as it can get and amazingly it just keeps getting worse. This site use to be a great support for me and it got me thru a bad time. It isn't what it use to be.
October 18, 2002

Comment: FUNNY I SEE JANICE IS BACK!!!! BUT JANICE ANSWERED EVERYONE ELSE BUT ME????? BECAUSE HE/SHE CAN'T >>>>> ALL I WANT JW'S TO SHOW ME IS FROM THE WT TEACHINGS UP TILL 1919 THAT JESUS X CHOOSE THE WT BASED ON THAT. . THE REASON I ASK THAT QUESTION IS BECAUSE NOT ONE JW . . . CAN DO THAT WITH OUT LYING!!!!! NOW JWD'S WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SILENT LAMBS????? THE WT BEEN LYING FOR SO LOOOONNNNGG!!!!THEY WOULDN'T KNOW THE TRUTH IF IT HIT THEM IN THE FAce. . . . john
October 18, 2002

Comment: watchtower quote of the day!!!!!!!!!" the Japanese beetle is said to be, at this time, our country's worst pest. . perhaps the devil made this one too; it looks like his work. . probably the lord made some of the useful insists, no doubt the devil made some of the others. . the lord is a better architect. . golden age 12-19-23 page 163-64,67,68 the g. a is a watchtower mag for all you jw's in the dark. . . in the bible it says that god created all the creatures. . . the wt says different. . . . look for the next wt quote of the day. . . . it gets better. . lol. . john
October 18, 2002

Comment: I want everyone to read what Janice has written. . . this is what SL is about first and foremost. Penny has been thru hell. . . absolute hell and she comes here for support. The only one who gave her deep & wise support was Janice. True christianity can be found hardly anywhere and but anywhere nonetheless. Please Back off of Janice - anyone who can show the insight that she does is not bad and is needed here and wherever she chooses to worship. Christianity is about love. She is no BioHarmony that is for sure - thank god!!!! JANICE: how you talked to Penny is the way it used to be here. Don't stop. Love, soapbox
October 18, 2002

Comment: Janice thank you for the advise I am still in the beginning healing stages my abuser was my real dad from 5-14 he raped me and no one did anything and they new. I am a survivor and always will be SOAPBOX my email is kingskid2004@juno. com email me i wanna stay in touch with u Penny
October 18, 2002

Comment: Soapbox i just went to the site u gave me thank you so much i have it saved so i can read it tomorrow i am going to bed now its after 11 here night Penny
October 18, 2002

Comment: SLC Anthony was Anti-Johns little imaginary friend. I believe Anti-John was coming up with another imaginary friend also. Anti-John is no more. Good by Anti-John, goodbye forever. Your 15 minutes of fame is over. Back to your day to day miserable little life.
October 18, 2002

Comment: Is the anti-john truly gone for good? Bless that wonderful name of JESUS!!!
October 18, 2002

Comment: Soapbox, I am the one that put the Gandhi quote on, after seeing the way the site was yesterday I felt something that might make everyone think for a minute would help. SLC what rules did the webmaster post I must have missed them can you give me a date or the are on the site? As far as your post about anti-johns website, the webmaster is trying to clean this site up I think after last nights horrible posts (which were deleted due to pornographic content and explicit PICS) that it is wise for everyone to not address any posts to them Penny I had written a comment to you about not letting anyone or anything get to you etc. but it was deleted due to it landing in the midst of the vile posts sorry. I just wanted you to know that until a person has walked in your shoes, their judgments and criticism is a mute point. Believe in yourself and be strong that is the best way to fight what happened OK Peace, Sheila
October 18, 2002

Comment: For people who read here often; Be careful. In light of all that I have seen here in the last few days. I find the new divisionists suspect. Very suspect. Be careful. -jayson
October 18, 2002

Comment: The first time I came across this site was by accident. . . the best accident in my life. As I read stories that resembled my life so closely tears started run down my cheeks. Before I finished reading it was well past 6am. My letter is not to preach but to inform. People in the name of all that is good, before getting into any religion. . . research, research and research some more. Because of my parents blind belief, I lost self confidence and precious time. Through the years, I self medicated and tried to commit suicide twice and lost my family. I have my good days and my bad, but for the most part I am learning to be free of fear, anxiety and depression. To everyone out there, stay strong and encouraged.
October 19, 2002

Comment: Janice: you say you want the WTS to put this issue right. we all here would love that to happen, but we all here know it ain't going to happen and that it can't happen! why can't it happen you may ask? well if you look at the WTS corporation as a legal entity which is what it truly is, then you have to understand the legal implications of changing their child abuse policy. it doesn't take a genius to work out that if they change their policy in effect they're saying that their policies were wrong and it would open the floodgates for lawsuits. so they have to stick to their guns on this and fight any lawsuits that are against them at this particular time. once they lose one lawsuit the a precedent is set then a floodgate of other lawsuits will be filed against them and then they'll have no chance. once you realize that, then you'll understand the true situation. *** hi to SLC keep up the good work. RICH
October 19, 2002

Comment: Jayson, If your speaking about the posts that were deleted, my hubby and I were talking and he seems to think that the one person doing all the chaos and defiling of the board was a witness. Why else would anyone care in less they were there ya know as for me I've just been busy with school and haven't posted for over a month. I needed to leave the board because I was revisiting the pain of being involved with them way too much. That is one thing I will say, when it becomes a have to thing to post I think anyone is too involved and needs to gain perspective. This board can be healing but it can also leave the wounds open and continue opening them if not handled correctly Peace, Sheila M
October 19, 2002

Comment: Sheila M-You get no argument from me there. I have really watched too many games be played out on this guestbook and am growing tired of it. (Not to say you did anything) If you go back a ways some of the posts directed at me flies in the face of everything I stand for. The bottom line is I will yield to someone who have a point to make. (Even a bad one. ) I have started the "end discussion thing" not as a slam but to try and stop endless bantering. (At least my own bantering) One of the biggest issues I have is that over and over the "world" is to blame for everything. When the world does nothing. We do it to ourselves and each other. But we take no responsibility for our actions. We are groomed to never hold anyone else accountable for their's. And if we do and they say I'm sorry and cry about it say they will never do it again then we have to forgive them. (Not just as jw's) and I think that is bunk. When someone hurts me it hurts and I will never forget it because it hurt. Forgiving is not forgetting. (Anyhow just something in my heart not directed at anyone. )-"The characteristics of heroism is persistency. All men have wandering impulses, fits of generosity. But when you have chosen your part, abide by it, and do not weakly try to reconcile yourself with the world. The heroic cannot be common, nor the common heroic. Yet we have the weakness to expect sympathy and appeal to a tardy sense of justice. If you would serve your brother because it is fit for you to serve him, do not take back your words when the prudent people do not commend you. "-Ralph Waldo Emerson-Jayson
October 19, 2002

Comment: Soapbox - Thank you for your support. I really DO understand what it's like to be a victim, to have experienced repeated injustices and to recover, forgive and then objectively view the entire situation, not just my own feelings. That's not to say that my own feelings have, somehow, become insignificant. However, being able to step back and look objectively at a situation helps to see the entire picture. It's very healing when one can do that. It STILL takes TIME, though. I've found very sympathetic elders who HAVE given me support and cut me more slack in my difficult times. I'm sorry for everyone that hasn't known such refuge within a congregation. ### That is probably why anyone challenged by a small handful here ignores the challengers. They're TRYING to respect the PURPOSE of this web site and the victims. I'm sorry to say that I do NOT detect any SINCERITY on the part of those that say they're in sympathy with Silent Lambs (SLs), even go on the march, but continue to use this support group as a forum for hate and destruction talk toward JWs and try to promote and force doctrinal debates. ### I only talk about my own experiences and my conclusions after A LOT OF YEARS. The truth of the matter is that it IS Jehovah God that doesn't interfere with persecutions of every sort. If it's HIS will that the WTS be destroyed, it will be. No matter how hateful anyone is toward the WTS, they won't succeed unless Jehovah God allows it to. This is true of any person or organization. People, even individuals, are instrumental only to a certain point. Ultimately, it's Jehovah's will that takes place. ### My personal experiences and conclusions are just as valid as anyone else's and, right or wrong, they ARE MY mind and heart and NO ONE that has an OUNCE of caring will trample on them or anyone else's. I'm not trying to force my "religion" down anyone's throat, so to speak. I'm only relating my experiences. To me, that is NOT the same as the spiritual and doctrinal challenges, debates and outright hate that is espoused here by a small handful. ### I'm trying to stay out of doctrinal debates, in particular, at this web site. As imperfect people, not one of us is exempt from abusing authority or one another. Each one of us has that potential. It's even more difficult to admit we're wrong - whether it's an individual or an organization. If lawsuits arise from that, then they have to be handled. Isn't that what Jehovah God requires? He's already warned us what will happen if we don't take care of matters properly at Matthew 5:25, 26. Therefore, the "price" for not doing what is right must be paid. ### However, such adverse talk against JWs is a HATE CRIME and it IS punishable by law. ### It's also NOT CHRIST-LIKE. ### Threatening to destroy anyone or anything is a crime. Hate crimes, in particular, have been a focus in the news over the last year. Such hatred is not acceptable - not to me or the world. Anyone promoting hatred and destruction of a person or group of any kind is advocating hate crimes and they really shouldn't be posting here. It is illegal. It's just as illegal as the crimes the victims are having to endure. Spreading hatred against JWs to friends, neighbors or strangers is a hate crime. Some can be so absorbed by hatred that they fail to realize that they've passed the point of what the world considers appropriate and they are actually behaving in and participating in criminal activities. ### That's all I'm going to say on this subject. My experiences are MY experiences and no one has the right to trample them. Espousing hatred and debates under the guise of being "for" SLs is, in my estimation, extraordinarily inappropriate for this support group. ### Such extreme behavior keeps away everyone else that is actually sympathetic to this group - including worldly people. It detracts from the legitimacy of this group (or any other group that seems to tolerate such activities). No one wants to get on the FBI's list of subversives by being associated with a group that promotes the destruction of a person or group. I think such ones should be GLAD of JWs tolerance and refusal to repay evil for evil and that we're NOT JEWS. THEY don't let such talk slide. It seems, therefore, that a small handful here should be grateful for the patience of JWs (at least in this matter). It does not help SLs. - Janice
October 19, 2002

Comment: My personal opinion I am grateful for this place. SIN should be exposed the bible says. JW who molest children should be exposed people who cover for these people should also be exposed maybe this will stop some of the abuse if we start standing up and saying ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and we are gonna expose every last person no matter who they are that hurts children INCLUDING JW'S. And what's worse is the JW'S using scriptures to cover up SIN saying they need 2 witnesses to see the child being abused COME ON NOW PEOPLE GET REAL!!!!!!!!!! you really think a JW or anyone for that matter is gonna ask someone that is abusing a child to sit in and watch the abuse??? My dad sure didn't. It is time to expose the JW'S for who they really are Penny
October 19, 2002

Comment: Janice. I say you sound like a wolf in sheep clothing. Nobody here hates JW's. We hate the WT Society as a legal instrument and entity and their criminal activities world wide. They should and must be investigated. Do not worry about Jehovah!He is not in WBTS. By the way He wants to be known for christians as Lord Jesus. Janice the sweetness of your voice presents no difficulty for me to hear what is underneath. It is forced. rmk
October 19, 2002

Comment: Penny, I'm not disagreeing with you. I've already CLEARLY STATED that in previous posts - even in posts where I didn't use my name. I'm also saying that if law suits arise, that's the way it has to be and that's what the Bible tells us will happen if we don't take proper care of matters. ### Matthew 5:25-26 says: "If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, (24) leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift. (25) "Be about settling matters quickly with the one complaining against you at law, while you are with him on the way there, that somehow the complainant may not turn you over to the judge, and the judge to the court attendant, and you get thrown into prison. (26) I say to you for a fact, You will certainly not come out fro there until you have paid over the last coin of very little value. " ### That is Jehovah's warning to us, as individuals or as an organization or both, and he's telling us to take care of such matters or else we're subject to legal action that could leave us penniless. ### However, there is a small handful that has POSTED HERE IN BLACK AND WHITE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE AND READ that they want the total destruction of the Watchtower society and its supporters. They, without any doubt or misunderstanding, have said they want THEM wiped off the face of this earth. THAT is a hate crime. If a VICTIM said that, I'd understand. That's a part of the injury and process of healing. A part that doesn't last as one continues to heal. However, this is not being said by victims but by those who are posting here trying to get into debates and create unrest by their hateful talk. I am not alone in saying that such ones do not belong here. ### In fact, I haven't even mentioned ANY NAMES but someone already is on the defensive, trying to mitigate (lessen) their comments or involvement in these hate crimes. Without my mentioning any NAMES, why would anyone react unless they're doing it? - Janice
October 19, 2002

Comment: Janice I am a victim and i want the JW stopped because there a false cult they twist the bible and lie about scriptures there telling people that only so many go to heaven and all this crap that are flat out lies I would love to see them totally shut down and i am sick of them knocking on my door. I don't want people pushing religion down my throat like the JW have done they don't need to be out deceiving people like they are and when i see them i tell them STOP DECIEVING PEOPLE stop twisting GODS word to fit there agenda and yes i am a born again christian Penny
October 19, 2002

Comment: Janice: so if i hate, say, the corporation Adidas for exploiting people as cheap labour in third world countries, would that constitute a hate crime?? i'm not one here who hates the WTS and i'm not bothered if they do go to the wall or not. but everyone here has the right to think the way they like, and just because you don't like it doesn't mean they have to go away. i don't agree 100% with everyone here and i don't agree with everyone's motives. you just have to be more tolerant. tolerance is something the WTS never tried to teach me. RICH
October 19, 2002

Comment: Janice. We all want justice done because we are all victims. This Evil WBTS has done that to us. Bill Bowen Barbara Anderson. James Penton. Ray Franz and thousands of others tried to reason with the GB and they do not listen and continue in criminal activities all over the Globe. They concentrate on poor and underprivileged, depressed and sick people and those in morning and they are after their possessions,money deprive them of their families,friends, jobs their health and FREEDOM. Modern but very cruel form of slavery. Ask anybody on this site if they are proud that they ever were Jeh Witnesses! You like to argue and accuse. I find you what I said above. You are a wolf in sheep covering. You are a Zombie from the Borg and you will stay that way until your eyes are opened. It seams this is going to take a long time because not only you are blind but deaf as well. As far as I am concerned Judas Iscariot was a better man than you. You are crucifying the Lord every single day whenever you open your wolfish mouth. On the subject of the name of JW. You are my witnesses says the Lord:that was given to Israel long time ago who were His witnesses. But you? Who are you? You are a scam religion. Evil , Satanic. God has nothing to do with you. You are a False Prophet! It is determined by Him that All that are guilty of false prophesying will be destroyed. Do not put wrong thought in anybody's mouth! You are a False Prophet and the Lawless Man. There is a book that was written secretly by several of elders from your religion called Report. Why don't you read it? Did you read Franz yet? Of course not. But you want to thresh straw. Keep going and you will starve to death to say the least. rmk
October 19, 2002

Comment: No, I'm educated, trained and experience in the field of law. Hating, alone, doesn't constitute a hate crime. However, threatening and talking abusively as though you will do harm to an organization, its people or both IS a hate crime. This group has to decide exactly what it wants to accomplish. - Janice
October 19, 2002

Comment: JANICE why the hell u defending a group that teaches false doctrine that takes the bible and twist it? Why u defending all these people that have molested children? ARE U ONE OF THEM? are u like someone said in here earlier a wolf in sheep clothing? I sure hope NOT. But it does sound odd that your defending a group that has been found to molest children Penny
October 19, 2002

Comment: janice. I quoted the Holy Bible to you. God hates falsehood false religion the False Prophet and The Man of Lawlessness. It is Him who talks destruction for all above. (I just agree with Him) Please complain to Him or, sue Him for Hate Crimes. Once more for the record: I hate the WBTS personally and wish that it be dissolved (destroyed) so it does not continue harming human society anymore. There are other cults as well that should go the same way. I do NOT hate any person in the WBTS or elsewhere though they brought me to the point of death. I and my family are victim of the WBTS and I do not want even to start relying to you what this religion did to us. I know God knows all what happened. He saw everything. He hears my sighing and groaning every day and knows my unabating pain in the heart,, Well Janice . Take me to Court for hating WBTS I will gladly attend. rmk
October 19, 2002

Comment: PENAL CODE SECTION 422. 6-422. 95 422. 6. (a) No person, whether or not acting under color of law, shall by force or threat of force, willfully injure, intimidate, interfere with, oppress, or threaten any other person in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him or her by the Constitution or laws of this state or by the Constitution or laws of the United States because of the other person's race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, gender, or sexual orientation, or because he or she perceives that the other person has one or more of those characteristics. (b) No person, whether or not acting under color of law, shall knowingly deface, damage, or destroy the real or personal property of any other person for the purpose of intimidating or interfering with the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to the other person by the Constitution or laws of this state or by the Constitution or laws of the United States, because of the other person's race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, gender, or sexual orientation, or because he or she perceives that the other person has one or more of those characteristics. (c) Any person convicted of violating subdivision (a) or (b) shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed five thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine, and the court shall order the defendant to perform a minimum of community service, not to exceed 400 hours, to be performed over a period not to exceed 350 days, during a time other than his or her hours of employment or school attendance. However, no person shall be convicted of violating subdivision (a) based upon speech alone, except upon a showing that the speech itself threatened violence against a specific person or group of persons. -What use of force has been used here at Silentlambs? Whom has talked about "scraping off the face of the earth" accept a Jehovah Witness defender who SAID that themselves? RMK has made it very clear that the issue is with the WTBS and he wants to deal with it in civil court. He has been (((screaming))) that. I would love to see the long debates moved over to JW. com. To do it over with the "no name" that would be what I would have said in my first post. That the "Thai" like the "Hmong" rape and sex issues are HUGE and would make a good thread there. It would also alert more people too the plight of these poor people. If that is the goal. But sometimes we don't get thing right the first time around. I just hear Jessika scream that this site needs to be protected, set aside for the Lambs that need to some forward. If I will quite down and be willing to move over to JW. com. Will some of you come with me? "No name?" will you come? "Sheila M" I could use your intellect. Will you come? Anyone else with knowledge of these things? They will blow you away. And the Hmong issue is right here in the USA. -Jayson
October 19, 2002

Comment: My experience in family matters and abuse is extensive, including my own experiences with repeated injustices. Therefore, I am, frequently, the person who does the initial intake of marriage, bankruptcy, family matters, etc. ### It is me that does that because I am a very understanding person. However, in sincere talk and it IS genuinely concerned and sincere on my part, I sometimes am confronted with underlying motives that appear in our conversation that raises red flags. ### We don't always refuse to represent a case simply because it has red flags. ### Also, after we decide to accept a case, usually it's me that does the research and writing related to individual cases. ### I can tell you that, had you been in an interview with me and you talked to me as you do here, I would not recommend taking your case. ### Of course, my recommendation isn't the final one but it has merit in the discussions of the pro and cons in one's case. ### If we decided to take your case, I would exercise my right to excuse myself from your case. ### And, do you know what? You've lost a potentially powerful advocate. ### I've been at this site for a few months trying to decide about you and your motives. ### Be glad that I'm exiting from here. I, personally, feel that your cause is futile with your current combatism. ### Since I have legislative connections through the family, I've been trying to decide if I should approach them with your issues. They are very much involved in mental and emotional needs of children, adults and the elderly. There's no way I would do so at this point. ### I'm used to various individuals acting nice to me because they think they can curry favors from me. That turns me off more than you'll ever know. Yes, I have to ask questions and make comments to get at how a person or persons really feel, think and act. ### You see, whether I'm in "secret" or "lying" or "hiding" or whatever you want to call it, I needed to see YOUR true "face", too. What I see isn't convincing as to motive. ### You see, there are people out there who have suffered so many more acts against them, didn't get justice but got necessary professional help so that THEY could get on with their lives. They've accomplished tremendous things in their lives in spite of all the dirt they've been faced with, had to swallow, and live with. ### If you want people to fight for you, it's going to be difficult. I doubt very much if you'll get it as a group. ### However, I'm sure there are competent lawyers that will take victims on, on a one-to-one basis - as it should be. ### Anyone willing to take on a class action lawsuit is taking on a huge task and it's not against the society that the load is going to come from. It'll come from you. Right now, you are your own worst enemy. ### You can take my words as a kind "hint" or you can get angry. You've gotta do more in a court of law than you're doing here. Also, don't forget that in a court of law, the OTHER SIDE gets to present their case, too. ### In the issues of child molestation, I don't doubt, one by one, that you'll win. However, in your efforts to make the society look like an untruthful cult, you've got a really UPHILL BATTLE. It's very doubtful that you'll get anywhere with it. Do you think the FBI hasn't already done an investigation of the society? ### My thoughts are that the society is the one I would legally defend if you're going to focus on threats and imposing verbal hate crimes against them. ### Take care and goodbye. You need help but it's not in a court of law, at least, not first. - Janice
October 19, 2002

Comment: JANICE THEN YOUR JUST AS SICK AS THE SOCIETY IF YOUR GONNA DEFEND THE CHILD MOLESTERS YOU MAKE ME SICK Penny
October 19, 2002

Comment: Janice. You are as false as 3 dollar bill. I do not believe a word of that what you said. And,thank you for leaving. It was not a pleasure unfortunately. When you read what I suggested come back we will be here. rmk
October 19, 2002

Comment: Hi all, it's Linda Thoman. I just wanted to say hello back to SLC, and welcome those who are new here. Hopefully with the changes going on with the Guestbook, the subject matter will continue to be cleaned up. To the new ones here, I'd like to extend an invitation to check out our group. Here's the link: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape
October 19, 2002

Comment: When RICH first came here I was the only one who gave him respect, and ask for others to listen to him. He was bashed just because he was a JW. . . and now Rich is accepted. @@@@@@@Janice has shown insights -I have not read all her posts, but the ones I have read show intelligent insights. She is bashed beyond what is reasonable or rational. And I am ashamed to be part of SL's because of this. She is kind and intelligent, and extremely tolerant. Unfortunately, most have too much hate for the WTS to tolerate a JW who is kind. @@@@@Jayson, you say that the OBSERVATION of the ugliness of the world is the same as blaming the world and has no relevancy to Silentlambs even if it is a SL speaking their thoughts. If anyone is divisive or corrosive it is you. @@@@ Sheila - my quote was a bit on the "nasty side" -I am sorry. I am ashamed. Religion has done nothing but confused me, but me not being nice is about me not being nice. You know I respect you and your hubby,know you been thru a lot You have always contributed sincerity, & concern with your words. @@@@ I can't come back here anymore -I feel too much constraint in what I can say, who I can support or can't support. @@@@@The world is unjust, and cruel. Choose your battles wisely. To walk away is sometimes better than a battle. "If only" does not heal. Hard work and the grace of God heals. @@@@@@ THE TRUMAN SHOW: Truman hit the "wall" of illusion to enter into a world that had been entertained by exploiting his fake/controlled life. The ones who produced the Truman Show were no better than the ones who watched outside. There is no place to go that is safe as long as we are in this world. The world is in Chaos, not an excuse or to blame, but reality. It is costing me to be here, more than I can contribute or find useful in my growth to becoming a better christian. As Roy Masters says "become better not bitter. " I don't want to be bitter, or feed it. I want to walk with Christ. Love, Soapbox
October 19, 2002

Comment: SOAPBOX if u could stay in touch please Penny kingskid2004@juno. com
October 19, 2002

Comment: janice; why don't the wt follow matt 5 26-27 like you said. . they will be left penny less. . but were does that money come from. it comes from fools like you and 6 million others that have been fooled into thinking the wt is the fds and chosen by god. . . they speak for god . . . jehovah reviles the bible to them . . . the proper spiritual food at the proper time????? what a line of crap. . they change their light more than i change my age. . . rmk is right you are a wolf in sheep's clothing. . . make up your mind are you for the wt or not. . you contradict your self a lot. . . now you are playing with jayson. . . you are a goat. . . so ahead and sue me for calling the wt a false christ. . . THE WATCHTOWER IS A FALSE CHRIST. . . THEY LET CHILDREN GET MOLESTED, SO THEY CAN SELL MAGAZINES. . . THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE FLOCK. . THEY CARE ABOUT MAGAZINES. . . READ ANY WT ALL THEY WANT IS JW'S TO PUSH MAGS. . . I SEE RIGHT THROUGH YOU. . YOU SPEAK WITH A FORKED TONGUE. . . I WILL WAIT FOR YOUR LAW SUIT. . AND BLOW YOU AND THE WT RIGHT OUT OF COURT. . . YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE CASES THE WT LOST????? IT'S RESEARCH TIME. . . . I'M STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO ANSWER MY FIRST QUESTION. . . . YOU SAY YOU ARE A STAND UP PERSON AT THE HALL???TELL THEM WHAT YOU ARE DOING ON THIS SITE TOMORROW. . . THEN REPORT BACK TO US. . NOW YOU SUPPORT THE SILENT LAMBS. . AND DON'T CARE IF THE WT GETS SLAMMED IN COURT. . . GO TELL THAT TO THE ELDERS SUNDAY. . YOU WILL NOT . . BECAUSE YOU ARE A TWO FACE. . . . JOHN
October 19, 2002

Comment: MORE /SLC BULLSHIT Here: "Anti-John can't get enough reaction to his posts, so he creates ELDER BOB @ POOP. com in order to fight with! Pretty funny! :-D /SLC" and Here: "CONGRATULATIONS to WEBBY for posting the new rules! I'm glad to see they are "out of the bag" and now we all know. You guy(s) are on the ball and we appreciate it! /SLC"
October 19, 2002

Comment: anti-john fights it out with ONAN THE DESTROYER (a. k. a. Bill Bowen) in the fiercest battle seen so far. As ONAN raises his secret weapon, THE MASTURBATER 3000, anti-john lunges at him and dashes it to pieces. ONAN fumes at the loss of his most fearsome weapon. And so, ONAN slinks off to his secret lab in the back room to work on an even more devastating weapon: THE BUMJACKER 4000. Will anti-john's luck run out ? Will he be so scared he pees his pants ? Tune in next time to find out. . .
October 19, 2002

Comment: See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they run. . .
October 19, 2002

Comment: MORE BULLSHIT "Anthony was Anti-Johns little imaginary friend. I believe Anti-John was coming up with another imaginary friend also. Anti-John is no more. Good by Anti-John, goodbye forever. Your 15 minutes of fame is over. Back to your day to day miserable little life. "
October 19, 2002

Comment: Thank you soooooooo much for this inspiring site. Truly this site is in harmony with Jehovah's purpose to keep care of the little children! It is a blessing that Jehovah has some faithful on the earth that truly follow His commandments. Agape
October 19, 2002

Comment: Poor little anti-john. Now who pulled his face out of the toilet before he learned his lesson? Quick, plunge his head back into the cool waters of his origin so that his facial orifice may continue to feast upon his favorite food and drink! Be careful, anti-john, that you don't ingest any of the toilet paper. I don't think it contains any nutritional value. And be sure to keep the lid down as you feast! The look of sheer delight that covers your face is pretty disturbing. Sincerely, The ANTI-anti-john.
October 19, 2002

Comment: come on. . . these people are suggesting that religious nuts just come round knocking on our doors to molest our children, not just bash us with large bibles. . . don't you find that a little odd? Next time they wake me up with a hangover early on Saturday morning, I'll probably get so mad I'll put up a sign saying "sorry, We don't have any kids here. Try next door. "
October 19, 2002

Comment: Amazon. com sells books that condones sex with children. They have been asked to stop doing this But will not "censor" their books for sale. More information at afa. com or American Family Association. Maybe buy your books elsewhere.
October 19, 2002

Comment: I love Jehovah and waited 26 years waiting for relief, and waiting for the elders to see. I disassociated myself last year after a decade of waiting for the elders to help. My daughter is also a victim. I, however, saw it to the finish, and witnessed more than I dreamed I'd see. The elders weren't going to take action for my daughter until my husband was arrested. I wanted to leave then. I still could not see the picture. I saw it till the end, every tactic they used. Of course, I was then disfellowshipped, for they could not permit me to disassociate myself. Our extended family has many who have suffered. We puzzled over the family problem instead of seeing it was the religion. My daughter and I had been shunned for many years until I decided, as my daughter had before, that there was no love. My mother-in-law, who had been disfellowshipped many years before said, "If they have it so wrong in just one family, just think across the entire organization. " We have suffered severely as a result. The story is copious, with some of the injured still amid the cult. It's still difficult not to be in denial.
October 19, 2002

Comment: I just noticed a comment about slandering. I did not mention that in my my last message. One of the claims I made about my husband was that he had been slandering me. My daughter and I had been turned into scapegoats for the disfellowshipping of my husband's mother. That began in the early 80's. After the authorities had taken action on my behalf, too, the elders began calling me a slanderer. They threatened me with disfellowship for slandering. And, in the end, before the committee, as I was called it again, I replied, "That's it. I take responsibility for what I do, not for what I do not do!" And, stated that I was still disassociating myself. I trusted in, and went to the elders instead of the authorities all those years, and they refused to help! The world came to the aid of my daughter and myself.
October 19, 2002

Comment: Dear you and your daughter. They did it to you as well?What you said in your 2 posts is a normal practice of JW. You suffered your daughter suffered your whole family suffered but you were blamed. In their eyes you were a complainer a troublesome person that is never happy never submissive enough to your husband and the Borg. So they hated you and sought not a way to help you but a way to destroy you. Not love but punches in the jaw you received. The Pharisees did that to Jesus. He was telling them the Truth. They did not like that so they crucified him. They killed him. I know that many times you feel depressed and in pain and can't believe the reality of that what this" beautiful and clean?" org. of Jehovah did to you. But they did. Please thank God for being out of there because they have no power over you anymore. But the Lord cared for you . He delivered you from the pit of Lions and He will restore you completely. It will take time but he will be with you to guide you. In the meantime please read some books dealing with cults and stay here on this site so you learn to be strong and see that there are many thousands like you. Together we are strong. The Borg is terrified of us and we have to continue pursuing the WT in courts. Look up the email of Lawrence Hughes in previous posts above and join the Global Suite Action against the WT. They owe as a lot. It is basically free of charge. The elders and all wt leaders are just plain criminals. No need to feel sorry for them. More we pursue them more money we extract from them sooner they will fold up and release our loved ones from the Lion's pit. Please feel free to express your pain here whenever you feel like. People here will help you. rmk
October 20, 2002

Comment: Watchtower Quote of the day*****the period must end in 1925. the type ending, the antitype must begin; and there fore1925 is definitely fixed in the scriptures, every thinking person can see that a great climax is at hand. the scriptures clearly indicate that the climax is the fall of satan's empire and the full establishment of the messianic kingdom. The climax being reached by 1925, and that marking the beginning of the fulfillment of the long promised blessing of life to the people, millions now living on earth will be living then and those who obey the righteous laws of the new arrangement will live for ever. therefore it can be confidently said at this time that millions now living will never die" golden age pg 217 jan. 4, 1922, pg 217
October 20, 2002

Comment: Janice: so on the basis of what i said about the fact that the WTS wont change their child abuse policy, are you still going to wait for them to change it? **** RMK why do you continually argue with Janice?? what you battle against, you become. just imagine if the WTS did finish, there would be another group set up to take its place. this is the world mate. i'm not saying that you shouldn't carry on the way you are, but this is the way i see it, "he that is doing unrighteousness, let him do unrighteousness still; and let the filthy one be made filthy still; but let the righteous one do righteousness still, and the holy one be made holy still. " Re 22:11. i mean, they're using God's holy name for goodness sake! you don't think Jehovah is going to let them get away with their wickedness do you? when people wake up and stop giving their minds away, then cults like the WTS wont exist anymore, they stop becoming reality. really i don't blame the GB 100%, i blame all those who give them their power. this child abuse policy is the product of the whole group's mentality. the WTS are their own worst enemy. what they fear actually becomes reality. AND IF JANICE DOESNT BELIEVE SHE'S PART OF A CONTROLING CULT THEN JANICE SHOULD GO TO HIS/HER ELDERS AND TELL THEM THAT THE WTS CHILD ABUSE POLICY IS WRONG, WHY ITS WRONG AND TELL THEM WHAT IT SHOULD BE AND SEE HOW HE/SHE IS TREATED. IF JANICE DOESNT DO THIS BECAUSE JANICE IS FEARFUL OF THE CONSEQUENCIES, THEN JANICE KNOWS WHAT IS BEING SAID IS TRUE. when Christ talked about when he returns would he find the true faith on earth, he wasn't being rhetorical, he was asking a bloody serious question. RICH
October 20, 2002

Comment: Child porn swoop nets 90 police Martin Bright and Paul Harris Sunday October 20, 2002 The Observer Hundreds of child welfare professionals, including police officers, care workers and teachers, have been identified as 'extremely high-risk' paedophiles by an investigation into internet porn. The discovery came after US authorities passed on more than 7,000 names of UK subscribers to an American-based child porn website. When police examined a sample of the most dedicated users, they discovered that many worked with children. Investigators knew paedophiles targeted jobs which brought them into contact with children, but were shocked by how many British suspects had been undetected by the usual checks. The discovery that many were working in jobs of the highest sensitivity will send shock waves through the child protection world and lead to calls for even more stringent safeguards. Investigators now believe as many as 90 police officers have so far been identified from an initial trawl of 200 of the British names found in the US. Many of the other suspects work in other sensitive professions, often linked to the criminal justice system. John Carr of the Children's Charities' Coalition for Internet Safety (CHIS), which represents all major children's organizations, including the NSPCC, NCH and Barnardos, said: 'It's very distressing to learn that so many policeman are being arrested for these sorts of offences. It undermines people's confidence in our ability to deal with it at all. ' Harry Fletcher, deputy general secretary of the probation union Napo, said: 'There has been growing evidence over the past 10 years that paedophiles have infiltrated careers that put them in direct contact with children. This latest evidence suggests we have to be even more vigilant. ' Specialist child porn investigators, including officers from the National Hi-Tech Crime Unit, have initially concentrated on users who had made more than 10 purchases of child porn from the internet. They used a US web 'portal' that gave access to dozens of sites with titles such as Cyber Lolita, I Am Fourteen and Child Rape. The sites were run by porn barons in Russia and Indonesia and involved abuse committed on captive children. British involvement in the child porn ring was so large that police set up Operation Ore to investigate all 7,200 subscribers in this country. They have passed on all the names to the relevant forces for further investigation; 700 are known to be in Scotland and 279 in Cambridgeshire. Police believe at least 5,000 could be considered 'goers' and lead to arrests. Operation Ore has also uncovered civil servants, a firefighter and a teacher in Northern Ireland. Another teacher has been arrested in Cambridgeshire and suspended from working with 11-year-olds at a village school. One Home Office insider told The Observer that investigations targeted the most serious cases, where arrests and convictions were thought to be relatively straightforward. These involve images of pre-pubescent children where suspects cannot claim they believed they were purchasing adult porn. The US investigation, Operation Avalanche, was set up by the United States Postal Inspection Service, which probes online porn. It began in Texas and has generated more than 75,000 identities worldwide. The website portal was run by Thomas and Janice Reedy, a married couple in Fort Worth, Texas, who were running an online porn empire from their suburban mansion which generated £1 million a month in fees. Both have been sent to prison. The Association of Chief Police Officers (Apco) has warned Ministers that forces do not have the resources to deal with the problem. It is awaiting a Home Office decision on a submission for £2 million of crisis funding. A Home Office spokeswoman said Ministers welcomed Acpo's focus on the issue, but they had already provided an extra £25 million to help combat hi-tech crime, including child porn. A police spokesman said: 'There are people up and down this country who are sweating. Give us their computer, even if it's been thrown on a skip, and we can quickly nail them. ' Observer sections _______________________
October 20, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "The Catholic Church occupies a very significant position in the world and claims to be the way of salvation for hundreds of millions of people. Any organization that assumes that position should be willing to submit to scrutiny and criticism. " (AWAKE Aug22 1984 28). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . compare with. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people whose who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. "(WATCHTOWER Aug15 1981 28)
October 20, 2002

Comment: Hi Rich. What you said is absolutely right. I thought that Janice is a man and I just couldn't take that twisted thinking and double play any longer. I am truly sorry that I did not restrain myself more. He was making many of us sick and I had the feeling he was an impostor. He was ignoring all evidence about the WT. I thank you for your kind reminder to let things go sometimes but I have done that for 25 years in the WT and now I find that my patience with them is over. I find them to be liars and crooks that should be taken to task for what they do right away. I was patient with him for a while but came to the conclusion that he is absolutely not interested to find out where the WT is coming from. But is that my business? I think yes! it is. Why? Because I care about the Lord and His people! "Do not throw pearls to swine says the Lord" and after a while you ought to stop. Don't let anyone be sorry for Janice parting from us. He does not deserve that. If he did not discern that we are genuine in our experience with the Borg than just too bad for him. It is between him and the Lord. Nobody has taken away from him anything. But yes I do not want to battle with anybody and I won't from now on. I will be more tolerant. Thank you rich for your timely reminder. It is appreciated. To all my friends on the site I wish a nice and blessed Sunday. rmk was
October 20, 2002

Comment: If anyone has soapbox email could u email her for me and tell her i would like to stay in contact with her please She has been an inspiration to me in here as well as some of the men have here Penny
October 20, 2002

Comment: I have been free from the Watchtower since 1996. It took time to get myself straightened out but I am doing great now. It was the best thing I have ever done. I did a lot of research before and after leaving. It has been a long road but well worth the effort. Keep strong. DWH
October 20, 2002

Comment: DWH Welcome ! would you tell us why are you so happy to be out of the WT? Some say the ORg. is good but some individuals among the elders are not representing the Society as they should and that's why people complain. Would you like to share some of your experiences with us? It would be appreciated. rmk
October 20, 2002

Comment: hi DWH;; WELCOME happy to have you . . . glad you took off the rose colored glasses. . . it sure makes jesus happy. . . . look forward to hearing from you . . . . john
October 20, 2002

Comment: I am very thankful to Bill, for having the opportunities of seeing what is happening inside the organization, i agree that the policy of watchtower is defend to the abuser, and no protect to the victims, certainly the Society is not showing the love that the little ones need. greetings to Bill and keep on ahead. .
October 20, 2002

Comment: ok i know that i only gave a crumb. of that meat in due season. . about the 1919 1922 conventions and the 5 year campaign of millions now living will never die. . in the wt quote of the day. . . here's another. . 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. the christian has much more upon which to base his faith than noah had ( so far as the scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in the coming deluge. wt april 1, 1923 pg 106 lets not forget the wt was saying that 1799,1874,78,1914,1918 etc. . were all gods dates also coming from god and the stone witnesses the pyramid. . i will be posting these wt gems shortly. . NOW LETS SEE WT THE WT SAYS ABOUT THESE TEACHING YEARS AFTER THE PROPHECY FAILS. . STIRRING UP INCREASED INTREST IN THEM, JEHOVAH CAUSED TO BE PREACHED FROM 1918 ONWARD THE STARTLING PUBLIC MESSAGE "MILLIONS NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE" NOV 15 55 PG 698 imagine that !!jehovah himself was behind the millions campaign advertising the end of the world in 1925 . . also see wt 4 1, 63 pg 218 or any other wt that glorifies the 1919 22 conventions or the millions campaign. . seems like a lot of these wt are from april fools day. . . are the wt making fools out of jw's????
October 20, 2002

Comment: before all the silent lambs blast me for the wt quote of the day. . . remember the wt will lie about anything to save their hide. . are they lying about their history??? are they lying about child molesters???? and everything else they get busted on???? see the point!!!! it's my angle to show the the wt is a LIAR!!!!! IT HELPS MANY. . . . LOVE TO THE LAMBS ,. . . JOHN
October 20, 2002

Comment: Hi again, I haven't been to this site for awhile. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I haven't read all the posts made most recently. . . . . . . . . . . . Our family has been in Crisis. . . . . . . . . . . . . . Since we can be tracked to our server I have changed how I write in to this site. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I want to protect myself and my family from any consequences of previous posts. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (I told of many things going on in the congregation; I not one of the threatening persons who come and put down victims; we are Silent Lambs) When I am ready and we are safe we will come forward. . . . . . . . . . . . My safety is paramount right now. I would be knowingly putting my life in danger if I could be identified in any way. I have had my life threatened many times and attempts made. . . . . . . . . . . . . I have put up with attempts made on my life and family and threats from my X (abuser) for years. . . . . . . . . . . . . Maybe some day he will be made accountable for all the pain, heartache, fear, suffering, death, destruction, and destructive effects he has caused to us and those who have supported us in the community. . . . . . . . . . I want to thank the webmaster for the brief time we were able to say what was happening and talk freely and for being anonymous. It allowed me to speck so freely. . . . . Now I am not safe to say all there is to say. I will not be forced to come forward before all my family members are safe and we are not right now. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Still praying for Jehovah blessing promoting protection of the children. . . . ANONMYOUS
October 20, 2002

Comment: Now nothing could be more hypocrite than this as well as a total twist on free speech: Thank you for writing to Amazon. com with your concern. Let me assure you, Amazon. com does not endorse the content of such books. Simply because we sell a book does not mean we agree with the ideas it contains. Please know that, contrary to rumors that have been circulating around the Internet, such books are not a "how-to" manual for child abuse. We believe that people have the right to choose their own reading material. (YES THIS IS SICK) Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any title they might be seeking. That selection includes some titles which most people, including employees of Amazon. com, may find distasteful or otherwise objectionable. However, Amazon. com believes it is censorship to make a book unavailable to our customers because we believe its message to be repugnant. While we do not censor items from our web site, I wanted to reassure you that Amazon. com does not promote these kinds of titles. We value all feedback from our customers, and I thank you again for taking the time to send us your comments about this issue. Best regards, Sucheta V. Amazon. com Earth's Biggest Selection
October 20, 2002

Comment: ACCORDING TO AMAZON THESE BOOKS MENTIONED BELOW ARE NOT HOW TO MANUALS OR A RUMOR. The Internet chat rooms are abuzz with the name Jeffrey Bezos, Time magazine's choice for “Man of the Year” for 1999. But those posting on-line opinions lean heavily toward the nuance that Time has erred in its decision. The American Family Association agrees, but for differing reasons.
October 20, 2002

Comment: I hope that all will stop buying books from Amazon - they are fake for $$$$, and haven't looked at the books they sell that INSITE pedophiles to commit their violence against our children.
October 20, 2002

Comment: TO ANONMYOUS: It is sad that you cannot speak freely here. As usual, a few rotten apples ruin it for everyone else. As far as tracing your IP to your geographical location, it is technically possible, yes. It is often possible to find out what town or city you live in just from your IP headers. In fact, since every server keeps logs, this information has been recorded all along, including the IP's of every person who has even visited the site. But the webmaster is the only one who can access this information. The issue really comes down to whether or not you trust him, the administrator of this web site. If he wanted your name, address, phone number, etc. he could easily locate your service provider and ask for the information. But most ISP's have strict privacy policies and he would have to apply through a lawyer or contact the FBI and prove that you had posted material inciting to violence or unrest, or pornographic stories about children. I'm sure you can see that this would be very costly and time consuming for him, and he would not go through this for trivial reasons. I am quite sure that you have little to be worry about. For all practical purposes it is perfectly safe to post here. GDB
October 20, 2002

Comment: ANONMYOUS-I hope you have safety right now. I hope you are not in hiding. If you are and you need help. Bill does know of people who can help you. You are not alone. Many of us here are willing to help you if you are in trouble or in need. (This is not a Jehovah Witness issue it is a humanity issue. ) There can not be anything worse than to fear for your life. If we can help you in a way that you feel safe I hope that we can. This is an open forum so here might not be the safest place for you to come forward but I sincerely hope that we can provide you some safety. Contact Bill Bowen directly. I pray that God will look over this ANONMYOUS poster and if anyone here has the ability to help this person, or anyone in this type crisis please do. -Jayson
October 20, 2002

Comment: Anonymous, Why would you fear posting here? The only ones that would be tracked by there IP would be violators such as ant-john that has posted some pretty vile things. Any site you go on can trace IP even a hacker can. If your not posting things you shouldn't then what do you have to fear or are you trying to create fear for those who post? Sheila
October 20, 2002

Comment: Jayson - you are very sweet, wise and kind in your words of comfort to the person in fear of their life.
October 20, 2002

Comment: To the person you is afraid for their life. Please call Bill Bowen. You have a right to ask 100 or 1000 questions before you want to risk your safety. That is intelligent and wise. If your questions are not answered or respected, or you are shamed for asking - end the conversation and move on. I pray to Our Father for your safety and the safety of your family. I pray for you to find the help you need with speed and efficiency. My christian love to you. (I thought I had posted this already but didn't see it)
October 20, 2002

Comment: Greetings to all, the guest book is still a work in progress. To all those silent lambs out here, worry not, no one will ever have access to your IP address. The only information the public will ever have is that which you post. Yes, there are a select few who have posted extremely vile art work, photos and language. Those IPs are recovered from the Server Logs and I have been directed to go forward with investigations using posted history as evidence as to the guest book abuse. It is not true that the Internet Service Providers do not care about those who abuse. The ISPs and their providing backbone services rely on all our business and serve the public to that end. They react immediately to an investigation of abuse. Rest assured Silentlambs is working to give you the most enjoyable site possible. I commend those of you who have come forth and shared your stories, like the examples in the bible from those who come before you sharing historical christianity with you and I, all examples collectively give strength to the whole body of Christ. Now more than one of us work on the site to improve it and help develop it. The guest book is one of my personal areas of choice and receives much more of my time now. I monitor it when I get up, daily and before I go to sleep at night. I share abuse issues with the owner of Silentlambs and act upon it accordingly with all agencies of internet connectivity and the law. It is my hope, and prayers to those who are the silent lambs of the world that you find peace, healing, and comfort in the Arms of God and within the home of the Silentlambs web pages. In Him. . . . . . . . . . . webmaster
October 20, 2002

Comment: Bill is working so hard. . . . . . . too hard for this to turn into a gripe line! Please support the ones who need it and open a chat to complain PLEASE.
October 20, 2002

Comment: I e-mailed the Watchtower society and asked very politely how the man who raped my mother is allowed to sit in a congregation of unsuspecting women and children. His response was that it was my mothers fault for endangering the members of the congregation by not pursuing it legally. She was not given that option. She suffered a nervous breakdown and began abusing alcohol. On top of that her family was misled to believe that it would be handled. Does anyone know if relatives can report issues like that if the family member is not in a mental state to? There are photographic evidence and witnesses to the after effects of what happened to her? Thank you
October 20, 2002

Comment: To the lady who found this site by accident and was up till 6am. . . . . . Please stay with SilentLambs. Bill Bowen has given the last 3 years(at least) to this site and is a wonderful Brother. The WTS is throwing away the cream of the crop (Bill, the Anderson's etc) In Spokane today a 3 yr. old boy was raped. when his Mother found him, his lips were blue and if she hadn't gotten him to a hospital, he would have been dead, they said within hours. I hope the police "accidentally" shoot the Bastard when they catch him. It is a sick world out there, but you surely don't expect it within your cong. The WTS is getting away with murder. . . they feel they are above the law. Soon I hope they will be loosing so much money they will fall on their face. Mole. . . . . please keep us informed. I hope someone out there reports on the Elders meeting of ll/l7. Hang on New Lady, this site will encourage you. Bill is working very hard to help all of us.
October 20, 2002

Comment: Hate to take up so much space, but Ray Franz had it right. . . . they are leaving in droves. . . . . ck your yearbook. Why all the interest in "do you have time. . . . l5 min. is all you need" I would not give them 5 min. Unless I sent out letters warning people of what the WTS does. The mind control in this org. is the best I've ever seen. The military should study it. I've tried to reach the FBI, but I think you have to know someone. Let's all keep writing. . . FBI is all you need. . . and write to the news papers whenever you can. Most have an editorial page. We had a dandy in today's paper. . . Jazbug was going to post it. Keep Watch. We should all copy it and send it to every news media we know. Thanks Bill
October 20, 2002

Comment: Thanks be to the webmaster for his efforts at cleaning up the site. However, some of his comments were not quite accurate. The most an ISP will do is terminate the username of an individual for abusive or disruptive activities. Believe me, I know. I once received an e-mail by mistake which contained the filthiest, most graphic story about a father raping his little boy. What little I read of it sickened me to my very soul. And yes, I did pursue the sender of these pornographic stories. His ISP terminated his service immediately but would not report him to the authorities or provide any details about him, to myself, or to an organization that tracks down pedophiles. The plain fact is, the paying customers of the ISP come first. And ISP's are not lining up to give out private information on their customers. Not only that, but those who make a habit of posting disruptive material use anonymous proxies to post. This means that their IP CANNOT be traced unless you happen to be from the CIA. It's all very well and good to jump up and down and make threats, but please, research your facts thoroughly beforehand. There are privacy laws, do you know what they are? GDB
October 20, 2002

Comment: Here is the editorial my friend said I was going to post. SUPPORT THE VICTIMS, NOT PERPETRATORS. . . With respect to the Catholic Church abuse scandal, I was shocked to read recent letters professing the victims to "just get over it," "forgive them" and "money won't solve your problems. " This isn't about "GETTING OVER IT. " What has happened to these people is so horrific they will live with it for the rest of their lives. The best they can do is lessen the impact, and then only if they have supportive families, friends and access to good counseling. 'FORGIVE THEM" is not about condoning actions or releasing accountability. Forgiveness is about victims releasing the hold perpetrators have on them. For the "MONEY WON'T SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS" crowd, counseling is for a lifetime, and it's expensive. So this is about money??? NOT A CHANCE! This is about accountability, holding those who committed these sins/crimes or covered them up accountable. There are only two ways to do that. The first is criminal charges. With most past the statute of limitations, that leaves civil action. Hold them accountable by taking something from them (usually money). Not holding these people accountable is not acceptable. For victims of this type of childhood abuse there is no middle ground. YOU ARE EITHER WITH THEM OR YOU ARE AGAINST THEM. This is a black-and-white issue, no gray. Please open your minds and hearts to these people as they struggle to find a semblance of peace. To do otherwise is to support perpetrators instead of victims. There are no real survivors here. (From the Spokesman Review Editorial page). jazbug
October 20, 2002

Comment: Dear GDB, Thank you for your concern regarding the safety of those who post in the guest book. At first I wanted to give you a lecture on ISPs and agencies but, in keeping with the harmony of the guest book being for healing for the silentlambs I ask you to e mail me and discuss policies rather than to use the guest book for a battlefield for your view of rights and wrongs. In Him webmaster
October 20, 2002

Comment: Since the webmaster has removed pervious posts about the TRUTH concerning the WT official policy on child abuse, I will repeat it here. Not only does the Oct 8 1993 Awake! encourage kids to speak out, but also recommends that the mother or adult concerned go to the poi lice, even if the offender is a spouse and may be put in jail. It states that if the offender loses his job etc he is reaping what he has sown and that it is the children's needs that take priority because adults have more resources. That is certainly not advocating turning a blind eye or covering up, so it is grossly unfair to blame the WT org for the misguided actions of a few. How would you feel if your son committed a crime and everyone blamed you for it? Search for "pedophiles" or child abuse at http://www. watchtower. org/
October 20, 2002

Comment: The Watchtower written policy may state certain actions be taken, but they certainly have not practiced that policy either. They do different than they say. But all perpetrators are like that. You too can quote anything you like that you find in writing. We all know from history that what they say and what they do are TWO different things.
October 20, 2002

October 20, 2002

Comment: I've just read the [press releases and complaints filed with the courts, but I'm curious - WHAT WAS THE COURT RULING ON THEXSE COMPLAINTS as the silentlambs forum does not publish what the justices ruled in each case. bioharmony
October 20, 2002

Comment: This comment is for Janice who thinks she is God's Gift to everyone here and who DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE DYNAMINCS OF ABUSE. . . . . . . . . . . . . It shows. . . . Oh how it shows. . . . . . . . . Some people take cases to promote their career and not for the cause. . . . . . . . . . . . . Do you even care? Do the children really matter to you? . . . . . . . . . . . . . What I have found in my experience is that pedophiles or pedophile sympathizers(sp) talk like this Janice. It tells what they are. It is more about what she/he is then any of the rest of us on this site. The normal person would find the issues so repugnant that as a lawyer they couldn't do it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Most that writes in to this site it is obvious they have been abused or had family members abused just by their reactions. We are for real. . . . . . . . . One thing Janice can take away from this is that we are for real and do not want favors from him/her, by being nice to him/her, as stated on a previous post. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . We are not out to impress anyone or get favors from anyone. . . . . . . We want JUSTICE. Most of us are very angry. I know I am and I am sure in some of my comments it shows but it is but it matches what has happened to me and the depth it has affected me. Many of the accounts I have read and it breaks my heart. May Jehovah be with us in our united endeavors to protect the children and expose the abusers of our children. . . . . . . . . . . . . . I pray fervently that this will happen. . . From Me!!!
October 20, 2002

Comment: This is GDB here. You want to give me a "lecture on ISPs and agencies" ? I've been there, as I related in my earlier post. ISP's have different policies, they might appear willing to help, but when it comes to the crunch you will find them very reluctant to reveal personal information about their subscribers. You also stated "I ask you to e mail me and discuss policies rather than to use the guest book for a battlefield for your view of rights and wrongs" I was not talking about rights and wrongs. I had no wish to enter any dialogue with you about it. I merely posted what I feel is relevant information. I'm sorry if you felt it was unhelpful. For one thing, you are surprisingly opinionated considering how ill informed you are. GDB.
Comment: To Everyone: The webmaster just posted a message yesterday saying he was on top of the problems with the guest book, also what he would be doing with the offensive posts. Yes, the information that has been posted is horrible but if we leave the board they win. I firmly believe that the vile posts are from a witness or witnesses who else would care enough??? Believe me I could have gone a lifetime without seeing the pics that disgusting person put on the site but I am not going to let them win. Notify the webmaster if you see something like that. That is why the address is on the site OK As for mole, I hope it goes well, personally I would tell them it was none of their business and not get into a discussion with them. A shepherding call is supposed to help you LOL Not be an interrogation, woops they forgot that. Sheila M
October 21, 2002

Comment: HI--------Just wanted to say hi to SLC and everyone here. I was out of town and haven't had a chance to be online much. WELCOME to all new ones here. Jesika Thoman--Dallas,TX
October 21, 2002

Comment: Sheila M, surely you are not suggesting that the unprincipled louts who graffitied the site with images of unspeakable filth were actually JW's ? More likely they were teenage script-kiddies with too much time on their hands. Lots of web sites get attacked, especially those with insecure guest books, like this one. Perhaps someone lurking at the site noticed the arrogant attitude of the webmaster and this brought on the attack. I'm not excusing this kind of behaviour, but I think it could be handled a lot better to prevent more of the same happening in the future. GDB
October 21, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER. . . . "All who have taken their stand on the side of Jehovah must abide in his organization under Christ, if they would live. There is no exception to this rule. The name 'Jehovah's witnesses' applies specifically to God's anointed ones who have been taken out of the world {i. e. are not part of this wicked system of things, etc. } and made witnesses for Jehovah, and these alone bear the new name. The official organization of Jehovah on earth consists of his anointed remnant, and the Jonadabs who walk with the anointed are to be taught, but not to be leaders. " (WT Aug15 1934 249)
October 21, 2002

Comment: I liked the pictures of Germany. Bill looks tired. I'M SO THRILLED ABOUT THE LAWYERS IN TEXAS THAT ARE DOING A CLASS ACTION SUIT!!!! It may take awhile, but if people really respond to that it will bring down the WTBTS! Yahoo. Wouldn't that be PRETTY? I hope the Elders in Wash. St. know about it, because they have their Elders Meeting ll/17. Please, someone out there, let us know what they are 'secretly doing'. Not just an outline either.
October 21, 2002

Comment: I liked the pics from Germany. Bill looks tired. I'M SO THRILLED TO HEAR ABOUT THE LAW FIRM IN TEXAS, DOING A CLASS ACTION SUIT. It will take longer, but isn't a financial hardship and WILL EVENTUALLY BRING DOWN THE WTBTS!! YAHOO I think personally that shunning is a pitiful form of torture. Hopefully Bill & Sheila can see their G. children again before they grow up. It is pitiful what 'they' do to families. ' One day everyone loves you, the very next day, NO ONE WILL SPEAK TO YOU. And what about those that don't want to come in the T. (ha)again. To NEVER be able to speak to friends and relatives? They should be sued BIG TIME. Please people. . . . come out of the woodwork. . . come from every where. If the WTS has hurt you in ANY WAY speak out. If I get D/F and my daughter won't speak to me, I can't even imagine what that is like. My children are my best friends. I've loved them since day one. They love me and show it all the time. I could not live with shunning. Thanks for listening. Has Jazbug written her 'column' yet? I like the new guestbook. Much less name calling.
October 21, 2002

Comment: I just heard about some filth disgusting pictures accusing Bill. It HAD TO BE A J. W. Remember. . . . the Pedophiles have piles of porno. . . that is what their little minds are on most of the time. There are ways of tracking them down. That is the ULTIMATE IN SLANDER We appreciate you Bill & Sheila
October 21, 2002

Comment: I went to the http://www. patiencepress. com Site. For people wanting to have more understanding about Post Traumatic Stress it is worth visiting. One one thing that I got back in an E-mail question was that there is not one perfect way to deal with PTSD. So do what works for you to help and heal. (Thank you for posting it. )-Jayson
October 21, 2002

Comment: GDB: That is exactly what I am suggesting. As for the webmaster being arrogant, how so? I have corresponded with him recently sounds like a nice person too me. As far as arrogant your last posts didn't come off as humble, "those in glass houses. . Sheila M
October 21, 2002

Comment: www. jwinfoline. com hit the button that says AUDIO - many excellent tapes to listen to - especially for ones who have just left, think of leaving and don't know where "to go. " They have all the history, some taped judicial meetings, and many many testimonies of JWs who left. MOLE - this would be very good to listen to while you are dealing with your situation. Also, for anyone who wants to ask Jesus into their heart and just can't "do it" these tapes will open your heart to the simplicity of knocking on the door - of Jesus - not JUST in the neighborhood! IT IS JESUS' DOOR YOU MUST KNOCK ON!
October 21, 2002

Comment: Truth constantly being deleted from this Board. To all who want to know the JW official view of reporting pedophiles to the police, please read the Oct 8 1993 Awake
October 21, 2002

Comment: TO THE NAMELESS PERSON WHO WROTE THIS: "I just heard about some filth disgusting pictures accusing Bill. It HAD TO BE A J. W. Remember. . . . the Pedophiles have piles of porno. . . that is what their little minds are on most of the time. There are ways of tracking them down. That is the ULTIMATE IN SLANDER". . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . WHAT KIND OF BRAINLESS MORON ARE YOU ? ARE ALL JW'S PEDOPHILE ? DOES EVERY JW HAVE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY ? IT IS ASSHOLES LIKE YOU THAT MAKE YOUR WHOLE CAUSE LOOK STUPID. AT LEAST PRETEND THAT THIS WHOLE ISSUE ISN'T JUST ABOUT JW VS APOSTATE.
October 21, 2002

Comment: Just because someone points out a Watchtower or Awake policy stating what the WTBTS says they want you to do, it has not been their way to practice what they preach.
October 21, 2002

Comment: To those who think what is written in WTS literature is what is done in real life. . . NOT GENERALLY TRUE, at least with child abuse. My personal experience as well as that of others shows that just does not happen in most cases. As I have said before, I have been a JW for almost 35 yrs. . pioneer, etc. and I have finally seen the "light", the "truth about the truth"and it is not pretty. I am fortunate enough to have a sister and close friend who also took off their blinders after Dateline. So I have some support. However, JW's who have not personally been affected by abuse just cannot believe what is going on. They have been so conditioned to believe everything the WTS says and does that something this horrific is beyond their understanding. . . for the majority anyway. It doesn't mean that most of JW's aren't good people, it's just that they have put their total trust in the WTS; causing them to easily be misled. Sure wish I would have listened to those "apostates" who gave up their time and money to stand outside those conventions, trying to tell us the "truth. " Love and peace, jazbug
October 22, 2002

Comment: Not all JWs are pedophiles and not all that leave the WTS are apostate. Since everyone here wants the truth, so This truth should be a considered too. It would be christ-like to consider that most JWs are deceived and need your prayers. Even the WTS considers the "great crowd" as a separate class and not entitled to the freedom of christ or holy spirit. I would like to see an appeal to any JW that comes here to first read the Abused Lambs stories with a prayerful heart before they come to read the posts. And they can be two postings sites. . . one for the hurting who need to scream and those who are able to comfort. And one for those who want to discuss. The lack of respect from all sides reminds me of the "Lord of the Flies. " WTS is not the only org. that has people in it's grip. I believe we should be more concerned about those in the grip of the WTS - not hate them. The WTS hates them enough and they have no love for the sheep, and teach no love for the sheep.
October 22, 2002

Comment: Agreed. Read the whole "Silentlambs" site if you want to have a balanced complete and fair minded opinion. If you do not read the whole site then you are missing out on much good. And you are denying yourself much truth. There are many ways to take guestbook comments. This happens in an open society. Where expression is, really, with in reason, freely expressed. Many of the comments here are very well suited for JW. com. All the tools to freely express are there for those who want them. And Again, I will stress that my feelings, and, I be live that most of, if not all of, the people who are common here; "There is not hate for Jehovah Witnesses. " For me, it is true that there is no loving adoration for the WTBS or the GB. But that does not equal hate. When one denies the truth to defend their lies, even if they become so involved in needing to "righteous" in appearance that they actually believe their lies to be "truth" until all possibility of denial has been uncovered and exposed to just say "So What" or "I might have made a mistake. " That is not even measurable in character. The WTBS must be held accountable for it's actions in the Sl matters; Really it needs to answer for it's "truths. " Any JW that is personally responsible needs to be held accountable for "Sl" crimes in a court of real law. It is true that this may be a long battle. But it is already won. We know the truth. There is now countless places that people effected by the evil can be validated, heal, and then choose to move on, or, help others to choose of the same. The days of intimidation are ending. Now is the time of Validation. -Jayson
October 22, 2002

Comment: FROM NEW WORLD TRANSLATION: "How shall we know that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does NOT occur or COME TRUE, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. Deuteronomy 18:21. The Bible God's word speaks for itself. WTS prophecy has not occurred or come true. No one can dispute this. The last prophet was our Savior Jesus - and even he did not know when the end time would occur. WTS has become a "professional foreteller of events" - Deut. 18:11. Please Brothers and Sisters, God does not lie and He is very exact in his word the Bible in warning and protecting and loving us.
October 22, 2002

Comment: Truth is not deleted from the Bible - please go to the Bible to read the truth. It is written with God's Holy spirit thousands of years ago and it is still true today because God does not lie. The victims of pedophilia stand with their stories as evidence that the AWAKE! 10/93 article is a lie. God does not want you to believe a lie. And Deut. states boldly how to know a false prophet. God does not lie.
October 22, 2002

Comment: It is grossly unfair to judge the WTS by the actions of a few who do not follow the instructions in the Oct 8 1993 Awake! If the victims want justice, let them not become unfair themselves but take legal action against the individual elders who ignored the instructions about going to the police in that Awake! as well as letters from the WTS to them. Some of you have got it wrong about "two witnesses" There does not have to be two EYEwitnesses to any sin/crime. eg if a JW couple married in the kingdom hall and six months later the woman gave birth to a full term baby then obviously they had committed fornication before marriage, even though no -one saw them do it. bioharmony
October 22, 2002

Comment: bioharmony, as usual, is right on the money. Thank god. Most of the comments posted here seem to come from the lunatic fringe. Some sensible, balanced comments and debate are needed, not insincere posters who care about nothing but running down the watchtower society at every opportunity. Such ones could care less about children being harmed as they are merely using the issue as a vehicle to their own personal, hateful ends. They desperately try to prove that the WT society is rotten to the core, even to the extent of asserting that children were raped BY the GB, AT bethel. Their is no end to their slander or the lengths they will go to. But in doing so, the only thing they prove is the blackness of their very soul. DK
October 22, 2002

Comment: Dear Guest book readers, it is obvious many feelings run deep. Feelings about being victimized, feelings about protecting the sanctity of a establishment which some feel is an "only" acceptable form of worship to God. In the Garden of Eden there had to be one form of worship to God, a personal one on one relationship with Him. Today, with over 160,000 different religions is it possible that man who in many groups and claims to have the "only" acceptable might be wrong? Did those of Jim Jones group know what Rev Jones was doing was wrong until it was too late? Did those of David Koresh's group know they were wrong till it was too late? If your a Jehovah's Witness do you judge the Mormons as a CULT or ungodly faith serving false God's. If your a Seventh Day Adventists do you see JWs and Mormons as CULTS? It is my firm belief that we will all stand before God in judgment for the consequences of our choices. Our mothers, fathers, family or friends won't be there to hold our hands and protect us from our choices. Have you really done your homework and do you really know who God is? Are you following admonition to make TRUTH your own. God's truth, not mormon, jw, bahia, oneness Pentecostal, boston movement, or any other mainstream orthodox accepted theocratic group. I pray that when I stand before my Creator that I can say I tried my very best to understand humanity, to show love where love is needed and to be empathetic and show compassion to and for my fellow man. Above all I desire from the wells of my soul to worship the Creator of Heaven and Earth as He wants us to in spirit and truth, to me worship of truth means knowing who he is according to His Word. It is each of our own responsibility to learn who God is and we should make no excuses like, "well, I trusted what they said", or "They told me what they were teaching was the Truth, in fact they told me all others are a lie, and we have the ONLY True religion". Have you heard that line with the faith you practice. I don't believe that problem existed in the Garden of Eden. Are you absolutely sure on your own merits of How your worship is viewed by God as acceptable or unacceptable? Do you practice Jesus command to Love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as you do your self? (showing respect and compassion for the victims who present their hearts for healing within this web site) Do you know Gods true nature? Do you stand behind a spiritual system of rules as your guide for how to worship the Creator or do you sincerely have a personal relationship with the Creator and have love for your fellow man? After watching this guest book for some time, I felt like asking its audience these questions
October 22, 2002

Comment: Bill Bowen was disfellowship without the benefit of ANY WITNESSES that came forward and said that he had caused a division among them. He was Df'd anyway. Why hasn't the society disciplined the Elders who did not follow Societies regulations per the 10/93 Awake? by removing them. A couple who had sex before marriage is hardly a crime that needs to be reported to the police. The couple did right their wrong by getting married - so give them a break. Don't compare them to pedophiles and don't please tell us how the Elders disciplined them. I have been wondering why the FAmily Book does not have a chapter on sexual abuse. I have been wondering why there are no talks to the congregations on a regular basis for all the droves of new people at the hall, as to proper and appropriate actions that are to be taken and that the Elders are there to back them up - one to prevent and two if it happens this is the course that will be taken. Everyone has a right to be informed. Not everyone has a 93 awake? handy and most people think the org is clean and would never ever dream that such a thing could happen. In 1975 the end was to come per WTS prophecy - the ones who were faithful, and believed The Prophecy were then beaten by the brothers for the outward show of their faith, by selling their homes and pioneering etc. Now they beat the lambs for being gullible enough to believe that Jehovah/s org. was clean. This is not the teaching's of Jesus or the love of the Christ. 10/93 is 9 years ago and the problem did not go away nor solved with that article. The WTS was very aware that the problem was big enough to at least add a chapter in the FAmily Book. They make you study that little book enough times! They need to revise that Family BooK.
October 22, 2002

Comment: please someone advise me on how to deal with my sister who refuses to speak to our family. she is so brainwashed in this religious CULT, that my parents are sick, and very hurt.
October 22, 2002

Comment: ******the mole***** it is sad but often a fact the elders in my hall and others only pick and choose guidelines that suit their own personal needs. if a person offends or rubs them wrong it would be easy to bend any scripture and guideline to have them removed. they use a saying that the victims of disfellowshipping needed to be humbled, what they should say is that if you don't kiss my butt i can have people ignore you. There was a person from placerville who used to visit this site in which i advised to be silent and speak out when only needed. if any of remember, he voiced his concerns to the public about an elder who beat his wife and was caught several times with a dui. the elder dan soria is still serving as an elder but the humor in it from what placerville told me is that this same elder had disfellowshipped a brother for abusing his own wife, and disfellowshipped another for smoking cigarettes. two faced attitude is why i protest and write in this site. the growth has slowed down in the U. S. but people still fall prey to the many lies of a false idol worship of men who claim to have the power to read christ mind. . . . ****the MOLE****
October 22, 2002

Comment: To the person who wrote about the family book. Your lack of morals is quite evident from your comments such as "couple who had sex before marriage is hardly a crime that needs to be reported to the police. The couple did right their wrong by getting married - so give them a break" JW's have strict standards about sex, and they don't accept fornicators, homosexuals or pedophiles. People often leave the org because they don't wish to live up to these standards. As for discussing pedophilia in the family book, WHY? Get your mind out of the gutter. Sex is mentioned and families do study this book with their kids and discuss it frankly. The book makes clear what sex is and that it is only proper within marriage. A child who is educated about sex in this way will know right from wrong and will be better prepared to deal with molesters. DK.
October 22, 2002

Comment: Quoting scripture out of your own bible is on the lunatic fringe???? Interesting! Asking reasonable questions that no one answers is on the lunatic fringe? The stories from the abused are on the lunatic fringe? How interesting.
October 22, 2002

Comment: I could name quite a few here since I've been reading the guestbook that are most definitely on the "lunatic fringe" as you say. . . for example, John, RMK, Anti John, The Mole. . . all are very extreme in their own ways. And yet the only ones who get criticized for it are those who seem to support JW's. Nobody tells the apostates hell-bent on bringing down the org to cool it, do they ? They are allowed to post their venomous garbage and sensationalist stories for which they have no proof, and nobody appears to be concerned. Integrity is in very short supply here. I want to know, is this site about protecting children and encouraging positive reforms, or is JW bashing the only thing on the menu? DK.
October 22, 2002

Comment: MOLE - IF YOU HAVE TIME AND THE INCLINATION PLEASE RESPOND TO DK.
October 22, 2002

Comment: I just can't imagine a father who molests or rapes his child, giving that child every option thru education, facts, and what is the only sex God allows. And sex-molestation is usually accompanied with threats to a child's life or any threat that will control the child into submission and silence and continued access to the child. You don't have to believe it - but it is true.
October 22, 2002

Comment: *****THE MOLE***it is sad many still in the kingdom halls believe what is spewed to the public, but apostate no. i believe in christ and god and i do not except any longer what ever good someone may think is right. i have been in the meetings for too long to ignore the facts that i have personally seen with my own eyes. i cannot defend a religion that my family has raised me in to thinking all they do is right or is lead by god. i was a victim of poor thinking in the 70's and told not to participate in school. i remember when we where being told the end was coming in 75. i also remember the so called apostate period of the 80's. our so called truth was a lie then. i remember when the words of franz was that of paul and now that he spoke his mind we are told to forget his books. i remember in the 90's the sudden change in being that generations meant i would never see death but now even that was taken from me. Truth is when truth is that is to stay true: yesterday, today , and for tomorrow NOT NEW LIGHT WHEN THINGS and prophecy don't work out as we are being told to worship each time the tide changes. it is sad that i cannot leave the hall but maybe it is jehovah's way so that someone not blinded may stand up and say no as did Ezekiel did when the jews said the same to him as you do to all of us now. . . . ****the mole***
October 22, 2002

Comment: I know this is long but thought you might want to read this. The following article appeared in the OTHELLO OUTLOOK weekly paper on 10/3/02. (Town where Erica R. was molested; on Dateline report) LOCAL CHURCH DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE HARASSED Dozens of stuffed lambs were placed on Jehovah's Witnesses church doors across the nation two weeks ago to signify children purportedly raped and molested within the church. ***Othello's Kingdom Hall was one of the church doors on which a lamb was placed. The church has been named in a civil suit through the US District Court against the elders of that congregation, following the conviction of local church member Manuel Beliz for the rape and molestation of Erica Rodriguez. Beliz was sentenced to 11 yrs in prison. **Rodriquez, now in her 20's, claimed Beliz molested her from age 4 to 11 before her family moved to CA. She contends the abuse occurred as a result of WT policy of not reporting crimes and elder negligence. ***She is not alone in her condemnation of the church. Seven other plaintiffs in the US and Canada have filed similar suits against their churches and WT. ***But is the Othello cong to blame? Rodriguez herself stated that the church knew nothing of the molestations until she moved out of state and told elders at her Sacramento, CA church, whom she alleges also molested her and threatened to disfellowship her if she went to the police. ***Is putting a stuffed lamb on a church door the answer? That act borders on harassment and could, in the long run, possibly damage Rodriguez's chances in court. ***Bill Bowen, the founder of Silent Lambs, an organization dedicated to fighting pedophilia within the JW church, along with Soap Lake resident Richard Rawe, has been adamantly pushing Rodriguez and the others to file lawsuits against the church. The question is, what's in it for Bowen and Rawe?***It's one thing to fight for justice, but when that fight involves bringing notoriety to yourself rather than to the victims, how is that going to promote your cause?*** The Othello cong has been noted in newspapers nationwide and was the main focus of a report on NBC's Dateline in which the Othello water tower was prominently shown at the beginning of the report. ***Is this any way for Othello to be seen by others across the country? Or any other city for that matter?***The church did not molest Rodriguez. Beliz did and he is now serving his sentence for that crime. ***It's time for Rodriguez to move on with her life and for others to stop using her for their cause. She had her day in court and justice was served by the Adams County Superior Court. DOES ANYONE WANT TO WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR?? Othello Outlook PO Drawer O…Othello, WA 99344 Posted by jazbug…Spokane.
October 22, 2002

Comment: ****the mole*** many of you know that reformation is what i have called for since logging into this site two months ago and it remains my agenda to let all former witnesses, current witnesses, and civilians to know what really goes on in our kingdom halls. some stories are just that, stories but much of it has a basis of truth to it. i find it hard that any human can really believe men are in direct contact with christ. this idea is against the very foundation of christianity and apostate to the teachings of the holy book, for some man to say he has this power is the very definition of being apostate whether your a Mormon, jehovah's witness or Pentecostal. years of study of the bible and research of ancient text such as the dead sea scrolls, kabala and the missing letters of the original apostles is the only way to come to a complete understanding of what we as humans should know to live our lives in the goodness to please god; not man, his religions or his fantastic visions of what he believes to be wholesome truth. i asked and asked the elders things that have no scriptural value but they have no answer and tell me and others that the organization is correct and NOT to question because i may be lead astray. if they cannot give sound reasoning from the bible and not from man made writings this should raise questions to why. covering up issues and not addressing them has been the way of the society, the molesting is but one of many things i have seen to question why do you do this? my family for example is so afraid to discuss these simple questions it only made me wonder is all those in our the halls so caught up they too refuse to see what is going on. i asked why don't my blinders works as theirs and my grandmother who has been baptized since 1942 told me to question, find out why, not to be stagnant in my love for god because we will be tricked with false reasoning. . . To those who have read all my writings knows i will doubt as thomas did and will speak up as ezekiel, and raise my voice to the idol lovers like malachi. i cannot be these men or have their power but i can mimic them and question the authority as they have done in the past. . ***THE MOLE***
October 22, 2002

Comment: To the one that wrote: "please someone advise me on how to deal with my sister who refuses to speak to our family. she is so brainwashed in this religious CULT, that my parents are sick, and very hurt. " There are books for this exact purpose. I have not had that problem since my family pretty much fell away at the same time - and I eventually saw my friends as the close-minded, judgmental types that they had always been (and I once was). Take a look at the website: http://www. kevinquick. com/kkministries/books/reasoning/ There is also a site with lots of forums, and if you'll sign in, you can ask the group any question you want. You'll get a ton of help: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/Default. asp Go ahead, take a look. - Buster
October 23, 2002

Comment: Have some of you got nothing better to do then make fun of someone that's been molested? I mean are u that dense and insensitive? GET REAL PEOPLE THIS IS NOT A JOKE stop coming in here and making fun of peoples pain. One day you will stand before God and answer for this so if i was u i would stop while your ahead because EVERY MAN WILL GIVE AN ACCOUNT Penny
October 23, 2002

Comment: dk; i leave all kinds of facts here. . that5 can not be disputed. . . with out lying. . a jw way of life. . . you have no idea what you are talking about. kids get molested in the wt and when they complain ,the elders that the wt says are appointed by the holy sprit call the legal dept . . it's the wt big brass that tell the elders to hush it up. . get your facts together your a wt zombie. . . all the names you mentioned have already busted you and the wt. . . keep lying for the wt and you will have to change your name here in a couple of days,,again. . . your god in brooklyn sucks. . . . john
October 23, 2002

Comment: with out giving names;; seems most of the lambs and apostates here are getting stronger and stronger. . . with the good facts the jwd's can't honestly answer. . . it's the same old wt line of crap. . . . seems we got them busted. . the jwd's should try that bull in the field serv. . . with some uninformed householders. . . it's not working here. . . love to all . . . john
October 23, 2002

Comment: MOLE; i've been reading your posts for quite a while. you are making excellent progress in your heart with jesus. . . i don't know if you see the change but others do. . i will pray for you and family. . . . be well . . . . your fellow christian . . . . john
October 23, 2002

Comment: MOLE: Go to www. jwinfoline. com, then to Audio and then look for Jay Hess. Listen to his testimony. Jay reminds me of you. God Bless!
October 23, 2002

Comment: *****the mole*** I must admit that I do not believe I am an apostate nor do I bow to false gods but I can claim that even the jews killed their prophets. I admit I'm far from being a prophet but the example is the same, that is, i will be ridiculed for making a stand. I do not believe christ is a god it goes against the psalms 83:18 and other scriptures. I simply want people to know that molestation does exist in the kingdom halls along with other abuses that men would rather ignore and sweep under the so called carpet of faith. There are many thinking witnesses who are repelled by such blatant expressions of blind faith. Yet most are still willing to conform, even to take judicial action against any who express doubts to the society's interpretations. Why? I try in my own mind and heart to understand the feelings of all these persons, including those on the governing body. Based on my own experience among those in my hall, i believe that they are, in effect, the captives of a concept. The concept of a mental image they have of the organization and the world around them, that is to be set apart or different, a feeling of being superior. The concept controls them, moves them, or restrains them. I do not believe that many of them would take the position they now take if they thought only in the terms of god, christ, or the holy book and NOT THE ORGANIZATION, they would have more of a feeling of brotherhood to all fellow humans. Their thoughts have been radically altered and their viewpoint mutated because of the controlling force of this concept. I too catch myself thinking of why i became a M. S. in my hall and I'm still wondering why i am so afraid to lose my family if i leave tomorrow, its the concept of control which entraps me. . . ***the mole****
October 23, 2002

Comment: TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE---------Comment: please someone advise me on how to deal with my sister who refuses to speak to our family. she is so brainwashed in this religious CULT, that my parents are sick, and very hurt. October 22, 2002----------I agree with Buster go to the web site http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/forum. asp?id=19&site=3&page=1------there is a lot of insight and help there for you, your family, and maybe your sister. Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx
October 23, 2002

Comment: TO ALL WHO READ THIS GUEST BOOK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The definition of apostate is as follows: -n. a person who completely forsakes his religion, faith, political party, or principles. . . . . . . . . So according to the dictionary it doesn't mean someone who for example left the Jehovah's Witness because they don't believe the 1914 teaching! It means someone who completely forsakes! And it means any religion, political party etc. !!! So by this definition half the world is apostates and any Jehovah's Witness who left another religion or political party etc. is an apostate. Please remember that this is the Watchtower's dirty little word to create hate. It is no different than someone using a world like cult to describe them. The Watchtower is famous for re-defining words so that members think that it has the Watchtower meaning only.
October 23, 2002

Comment: Thank you for the entertaining animal stories. I laughed so hard I peed myself.
October 23, 2002

Comment: Maybe you should wear diapers Anti-John
October 23, 2002

Comment: I really wonder if Mr. Yutz has any idea what the meaning of libel is? Do you honestly think you can say and do the things that you've done on this site with out repercussions. I think your major screwup was your last post making a web page is very easy to trace and by the way great evidence of libel in court. To Penny don't let this yutz bother you, he thinks he is funny well I'm not laughing. Sheila M
October 23, 2002

Comment: Since I myself was sexually abused by not only "worldly" men, but also by so-called brothers, I am proud of each and every one of you who have found the courage to speak out and not hold it in yourself. I know what harm can result from not speaking out and the sacrifice is greater not speaking than it is in speaking. My assailants are dead. I tend to believe that it is because of what the Bible says: 'Vengeance is mine, thus saith the Lord. ' Maybe I'm wrong but that is the way I tend to look at it and it makes me feel good. Mr. Bowen's comment to the WTBTS was correct when he used Ezekiel. Go for it all of the way! Hear! Hear!
October 23, 2002

Comment: http://groups. msn. com/WatchtowerExcape/_whatsnew. msnw
October 23, 2002

Comment: To the person who has been asked about how many brothers, how many men - you do not have to talk about this here. The person who asked about this is probably ANTI-JOHN, who has no interest whatsoever except to exploit you. This web site is not safe emotionally as long as anti-john is here. The core group here are glad to have you, but we do not require or inquire into details unless you volunteer.
October 23, 2002

Comment: Excuse me, I only asked about this because I find it hard to comprehend. Of course I'm concerned about sexual abuse matters, but it never really came to mind that a child could be abused by more than just one pedophile. It makes me wonder how prevalent this really is. I can't help but be skeptical also. I'm very sorry if you thought I was being rude or if you thought I was somebody else.
October 23, 2002

Comment: The last thing you will see when you leave this life will be a wonderful sight or a terrible surprise. Each of our choices will lead us to one of these two end results. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . webmaster
Comment: This is not the place to be skeptical of someone who was brave enough to post a little of their story. Once a person has been abused just once - they are vulnerable to being abused again by others. I have had repeated experiences in my life because I had no self worth, thought it was my fault, I deserved it for being so stupid or naive, hung around the wrong kind of people - even though they looked different than the last person that hurt me. I repeat that this is not the place to ask anyone to prove their story - this is the place for them to tell their story no matter how unbelievable we will believe. I am sure that this person knows her story is hard for people to believe. And that she blames herself for it happening again and then again. But we believe all stories and comfort all those who come here with their stories. A victim does not have to come here and convince anyone as to the validity of their story - that would be counter-productive as to the healing. I have my own stories and it use to be I could tell them here - but I don't dare anymore. This site originally was for the ones who have been silenced and it has turned into a place where it is safer to be silent. . . just like everywhere else. It would be more loving if you are skeptical to keep it to yourself than ask someone who has been harmed this much to explain, or prove or give you details to satisfy your doubts or curiosity. I don't mean to be harsh. . . I am just very protective of those who are vulnerable and need help and that is the purpose or was of SL.
October 23, 2002

Comment: To the person who has had many abuses in her life. . . you can contact Bill Bowen and ask him for email addresses, or phone numbers until this web site becomes a safer place. Most of the comforters have left, or don't come here often. But I do know that there are some absolutely wonderful and wise people who can be a good listening ear for you - just ask Bill who and how to contact them. If you need to tell your story, you need to do it in a safe environment to a safe person. That is healing. I believe you and I hope that is some comfort. I think the hardest damn thing for me to accept is that I am entitled to be safe on my terms. Where I go, who I talk to, who I invite into my home - who I trust is my choice. Safety is my choice and no one can make that choice for me. If I don't make my safety paramount then I set myself up for abuse. I don't explain it anymore - because that is a trap too and a set-up for abuse. Safety is a key is healing for those who have been abused.
October 23, 2002

Comment: I disagree with what you say. This web site is perfectly safe. Nobody can molest you or harm you here, or injure you in any way. The dynamics of this medium (the internet) make that impossible. I guess if you were epileptic, a computer could induce a seizure or something, but that is more a result of an pre-existing condition. I don't understand all this talk about safety at all. This guest book is as safe as it's gonna be - except for one thing. . . you see, Bill left the door open. . . anyone can just march in and type what they like. Disturbing, isn't it? But that's the internet for you.
October 24, 2002

Comment: Actually, I just realized you are completely right. I thought I was dealing with an incredibly paranoid person, but as I read your posts again, it suddenly came to me: Everyone IS out to get you. Love from me to you, and I hope you find the peace you so desperately need.
October 24, 2002

Comment: SAFE???? YOU CALL THIS PLACE SAFE? I AM A VICTIM OF CHILD MOLESTATION FOR 9 YRS AND TO COME IN HERE AND HEAR PEOPLE MAKING FUN OF PEOPLE RAPED AND SAYING SOME OF THE THINGS SOME HAVE SAID IN HERE HAVE ONLY BROUGHT THE PAIN BACK MORE I CAME HERE CAUSE IT WAS SOPPUSE TO BE SOME WHERE I CAN VENT AND SAY I WAS ABUSED AND RAPED AND I NEED TO TALK BUT NO WE HAVE TO HAVE THE ASSHOLES COME IN HERE AND MAKE FUN OF US THAT BEEN RAPED ITS NOT A FUNNY THING BEING RAPED I AM NOW 38 AND I DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL NORMAL IS NEVER BEEN MARRIED NEVER ALLOW MEN TO HOLD ME NEVER DATED CAUSE I AM AFRAID IF I DO THAT THERE GONNA DO WHAT MY DAD DID TO ME ALOT OF SHAME THAT MAYBE EVEN THOUGH I WAS 5-14 THAT I COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING TO STOP THIS MAYBE IF I WASNT CRYING AND DIDNT ASK TO SIT ON MY DADS LAP AND HOLD ME THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPEND THIS IS WHAT RAPE VICTIMS GO THREW SO UNTIL U BEEN RAPED AND KNOW THE PAIN SHUT THE HELL UP AND I AM SORRY FOR MY ANGER BUT I AM SICK OF SO CALLED PEOPLE SAYING THIS AND THAT AND THEY NEVER FELT THE PAIN OF BEING SO VIOLATED AND USED BY ANOTHER HUMAN BEING PENNY
October 24, 2002

Comment: Fascinating True Story of the WT Secret Police at Conventions, specifically one in England: Personal Experiences - Author: Pleasuredome - WTS Secret Police; Oct 24, 2002 08:36 *** Here's a story of what happened to me at a district convention this year. . . http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39248&page=1&site=3#535971
October 24, 2002

Comment: Penny said is all. . . that she should be able to come here without "sickoids" posting horrible things. Safe as in emotionally safe. . . it is not emotionally safe to pour your heart out or test the waters with a little of our stories and get no comfort. Or worse be ridiculed, disbelieved, or have filth posted about our stories. This site should be the stories and comfort to those who tell their stories. I am sick of the filth, I am sick of the callousness, the curiosity, I am sick of those you have the time to come here and say "get over it" and I am sick of those who want to defend the WTS and I am sick of the inability to keep this site clean of "antijohn" and sick of all the excuses for allowing this to continue. There is something terribly wrong here. The posting should be shut down and if someone needs help they should call Bill and he can refer them. This has become another set-up for abuse even if it is only words. Words of disbelief and ridicule or filth are triggers for those who have been abused. Those who do not support, know how to support or care should not have access to the post site. . . they would not be tolerated any where else and it makes me feel that the sexually abused here are just at the bottom of the barrel and that to protect them is of no real importance to anyone. So now the abused can come here to be verbally abused, emotionally abused. . . instead of "waiting on Jehovah" to straighten it out they can "just wait. "
October 24, 2002

Comment: What's the latest from the Society re: child abuse? What are the elders being told at the Supplementary Elder's School this past week? For a copy of one elder's written notes from that school, go to: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39189&site=3
October 24, 2002

Comment: No!!! This is not the internet for you. . . Try to post on Channel "C" - it is locked up tight. THIS SITE SHOULD BE 100% secure and the lambs who were silenced have the right to privacy, the love they need and to tell their stories. It is irresponsible to have this open ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING THE SUBJECT AND THE FRAGIL CONDITION OF THOSE WHO MIGHT COME HERE. That is about irresponsibility, not the internet.
October 24, 2002

Comment: The Silentlambs deserve the best and they are not getting it.
October 24, 2002

Comment: ANY SOUTH AFRICAN VISITORS? *** From: "silentlambs" info@silentlambs. org; Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 12:42:28 -0500; Subject: Reporter S Africa *** The Panorama Program recently aired in South Africa and I have a reporter there interested in doing a story. If you know anyone who may be an abuse survivor who is willing to talk to press who was molested in Africa as a JW please let me know asap. Regards, Bill
October 24, 2002

Comment: i don't like this website, i regret visiting this website for the fact that former believers of jehovah have putting his name on the ground. it is a shame of how you people have a lack of faith in jehovah. it is not jehovah's fault that all of this is hap penning. it is satan the devil that is on the loose like a lion. jehovah is loving and he is patient. if you don't agree with what jehovah requires from us then just go on with your way don't pit his name on the floor. have respect for the one that brought you to this world. can you a least do that? i guess you can't because most of all you people have put his name on the floor. the whole point here is to either have faith in jehovah or don't even have faith. or at least trust in him. none of you people have the decency to have love for jehovah the creator of this world. all of you's have mocked and mocked and made fun of jehovah. but its okay because when jehovah day comes you will see who will be laughing in your face. it will be each and one of you that laughed and laughed in jehovah's face. you don't know what you are missing. there might be restrictions here and there but it is for our own good and safety. if you want to live in a peaceful world then you will do what jehovah asks from us. but if you do other wise then you are looking for trouble. jehovah is almighty god and all we have to do is trust in him with all of your heart and don't lean on your understanding. psalms 3:5.
October 24, 2002

Comment: NOTICE: From: Kimberlee Norris [mailto:kdnorris@airmail. net] Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 11:46 AM; To: silentlambs Subject: Help Get the Word Out *** Hey guys- Help me put the word out, I'm looking for victims of Lloyd Cline in Grant's Pass, Oregon, and Dan Fitzwater in Yerington, Nevada. *** Also, anyone treated in JW wing of HCA Truckee Fields in Reno, Nevada. Thanks- Kimberlee D.
October 24, 2002

Comment: Comment: i don't like this website, i regret visiting this website for the fact that former believers of jehovah have putting his name on the ground. LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JEHOVAH I RESPECT GOD VERY MUCH ITS HIS PEOPLE THAT I HAVE THE PROBLEM WITH THE JW'S SO GET YOUR STORY STRAIGHT ITS NOT GOD WE ARE AGAINST ITS THE PEOPLE THAT SAY THERE HIS CHILDREN AND THERE COMING HERE AND HURTING OTHERS Penny
October 24, 2002

Comment: LEGAL MATTERS for those who may need it. Save for Future Reference. *** All Threads Started by Kim Norris: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/userthreads. asp?id=6630&site=3 *** All Comments by Kim Norris: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/userposts. asp?id=6630&site=3 *** Molested by Dan Fitzwater?: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38434&site=3 *** Molested by Chris McKenzie?: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38435&site=3 *** Molested by Lloyd Cline, Oregon?: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38669&site=3 *** Molested in Estes Park, CO, congregation? http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38625&site=3 *** Molested in Grants Pass, OR? http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38624&site=3 *** Molested by Ronald Weaver? http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39046&site=3 *** Abused at Sacramento (JW) Prep School? http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39055&site=3 *** and http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39127&site=3 *** Perpetrators in any JW congregations? http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=37273&site=3 *** Wrongful Deaths due to blood policies? http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=37271&site=3 *** Kim's Comments re: Mass v. Class Action: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=37189&site=3 *** Statute of Limitations for sex abuse/all states: http://www. lovenorrisattorneys. com/statute. html *** Litigation Info page for Jehovah's Witnesses at her site: http://www. lovenorrisattorneys. com/jehova. html *** Hope this helps. Sue ;-)
October 24, 2002

Comment: SILENTLAMBS MARCH SCHEDULED FOR THE UK NEXT SPRING - MAKE PLANS NOW! Contact Brummie, they posted the info here: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=38989&page=1&site=3#535725 *** Topic: Silentlambs. . . advertise! advertise! advertise! Oct 20, 2002 15:43 *** OK England's ready to rock the boat again! Silentlambs March in UK will take place on March 29th 2003. It's only 5 months away so please advertise and make this a significant event for the UK victims who continue to suffer. A lot of scared victims came out of the woodwork after Panorama and felt able to speak out for the first time, there's plenty more yet to speak out so let's support them by raising awareness on this march. *** Just so we can get an idea of how many will be expected to march, please email me to confirm whether you can come along or not, you are the first to be given confirmation of the date of the march. exjw@lycos. co. uk Brummie
October 24, 2002

Comment: EXAMPLE OF A FARE to UK, from say Phoenix straight to Heathrow in London: Approx. $540, economy cabin seat on a Boeing 777, flight is 9 hours and 50 minutes and covers 5,266 miles. Not bad. This price thru orbitz.
October 24, 2002

Comment: Penny - you need to contact Bill and express your valid complaints. Please do that. He needs to know what is going on here and how it is hurting you. I already emailed him with my valid concerns. I hate coming here, I do it only to watch out for others who might need an advocate as to how offensive and deplorable this site has become.
October 24, 2002

Comment: The Watchtower Organization does not = Jehovah or God. This is a perverted Organization that cannot be cleaned out. It is built out of lies and control. The best thing a person can do it 'get out of her'. The Watchtower (man made) Organization does not represent Jehovah or God.
October 24, 2002

Comment: We are near ready to begin the blocking process of IPs. Some of those who abuse have used multiple IPs. All of them will be blocked. . In addition dialog has been opened up about the possibility of having a second "closed door" victims only guest book. Details will follow soon. . . . . webmaster
October 24, 2002

Comment: WEBMASTER thank you for all you are doing here. I am a victim that is in the healing process and i thank you that your doing everything you can to make things better for us here God bless you Penny
October 24, 2002

Comment: IF YOU WERE MOLESTED BY RONALD WEAVER. . . Posted Oct 24, 2002 14:56 . . . when this alleged perp lived in Penn. , Bethel, Tennessee or Florida, please contact me at kdnorris@airmail. net - 817. 335. 2800 - Kimberlee D. Norris, attorney at law *** http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39269&site=3 *** Sue. WWW. LOVENORRISATTORNEYS. COM
October 24, 2002

Comment: The central part of the problem with trying to change the Watchtower Organization is it WILL NOT LISTEN! In the 'Make Sure Of All Things' book under Organization(Jehovah's) is states 'Entire Organization Functions Theocratically, from God(Theos)Down. ' HOW DO YOU MAKE A FEW MEN IN POWER LISTEN WHEN THEY BELIEVE THIS FIRST? I don't think you can. Many on the outside and some on the inside know it is not the truth, because we did 'Make Sure Of All Things'. But as far as any real change, you will be talking to a brick wall.
October 24, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge. " (WT Apr1 1923 106)
October 24, 2002

Comment: Penny, hang in there girl. That's all I have to say, just hang in there. Linda Thoman
October 24, 2002

Comment: To Penny and the other victims: I know that there has been horrible things said but if you look at as that is the same mind set of the witnesses that didn't believe you. There are horrible people everywhere, this doesn't make this site bad or wrong. This website is what it always is a catharsis for those abused. The people that choose to say abusive things should be ignored, DON'T read their trashy posts and don't ever let anyone MAKE YOU FEEL anyway. You control your feelings always remember that abusers take away that right they want you to feel bad don't give them that validation. There are so many that care and believe you remember that, if I could strangle the idiot that has left those horrible posts I would but you know he has to live with his sick demented mind and that may be punishment enough. Penny don't let Bills efforts go in vain, they want to keep you in a place with no place to vent. That gives them power this is our place Bill gave it to us. Let's enjoy it and ignore the bad until they can be dealt with OK Love n Peace Sheila M
October 24, 2002

Comment: 1Tim 2:5 says For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom FOR ALL and this is what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. ^^^^WTS is not the mediator and they have pushed Jesus into second position by putting themselves into the position of mediator. They teach the love of the organization, not the love of Christ. They teach obedience, and submission to the organization - not Christ. Jesus is a footnote at the end of a prayer at the KH. Our relationship with Christ cannot peacefully coexist with the relationship of being a slave to the WTS or any organization. Jesus is the master. I would rather be accused of being accountable/worshipping/following/being obedient/listening/praying to/ being a slave to Jesus than the WTS.
October 24, 2002

Comment: To the JW who claims that God is going to laugh at those he destroys. . . where is the scripture to back that up???? Now, don't lean on your own understanding- but give us a scripture from God's Holy bible. Jesus is the way, the life and the truth. No one here hates God. What is hated is the way the WTS has hoarded the holy spirit and minimized Jesus as our mediator which God's word clearly states that Jesus is man's mediator. Show us a scripture that proves an organization is the mediator for (Jesus) the mediator for man. Go to the Holy Scriptures in prayer and you will be able to discern the truth of Jesus and don't lean on the understanding of anyone.
October 24, 2002

Comment: I'm sorry that people like Penny are hurt by what is said here, but this is a public forum and perhaps she is not emotionally strong enough to survive here, or indeed in the world at large. I hope someone here will listen to her cry for help and give her the support she needs, she is not going to find it here in the guest book. If she is as fragile as she appears to be, perhaps it is best that she not read or post here, as there will always be opposing views and no matter what is said here it is always going to upset her. You can't MAKE the world just fall in line and treat you with kindness and consideration all the time. People aren't like that. It is tantamount to abusing others when you try to force them into your mould, stop them expressing themselves and be what they are not. The reason for this site, and this guestbook is to support people like Penny. But while it is open to everyone, others can read and post too. And they all have something to say - for, against, indifferent, or just plain stupid. No offence, Penny, but I'll be damned if I'M going to change MY whole world and outlook on things just for you. You want the whole world to change and treat you a certain way, but I'll tell you something. That isn't going to happen. YOU need to change. YOU have to toughen up if you're going to survive in this world. V.
October 24, 2002

Comment: I have a suggestion. If you don't want this site to be targeted by "sickoids", there are positive things that could be done. How about being more honest in your approach, relying on facts, not sensationalism and dubious statistics. Make it clear that the aim of this site is to help and support victims. Try to appeal to JW's to look into how the policies can be changed for the better. Don't do anything antagonize people, because it always comes back to bite you.
October 24, 2002

Comment: And V why do you come here???? It appears you are just some negative, insensitive, cold and heartless creature that wants the world to tolerate you even when you are not invited or welcomed. You have nothing to offer us here. I hate bullies.
October 24, 2002

Comment: You may provide options for the member(to change), but you will NEVER change the Organization. It plain and simply does not care what others think.
October 24, 2002

Comment: V TOUGHEN UP? WHAT AND ALLOW ASSHOLES LIKE U THAT ARE SO DAMM INSENSITIVE TO HURT PEOPLE LIKE ME. THE HELL WITH YOU I DONT HAVE TO TOUGHEN UP AND BECOME A HARD CORE PERSON IF YOU DONT WANNA BE SENSITIVE TO PEOPLE LIKE ME GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS FORUM VICTIMS NEED A SAFE PLACE AND IF U ARE SO FUCKING IGNORANT TO THAT THEN U NEED MORE HELP THEN I DO PENNY
October 24, 2002

Comment: I can assure you I am not a bully, and I'm sorry if you read that into my comment. I feel for Penny and the challenges she faces in daily life - she is far too fragile for this world as it is. The cold hard fact is that nobody's going to wrap her up in loving arms and cotton wool. Telling you that the world is a harsh and unforgiving place does NOT equal being a bully. I am just being realistic here. It's important for me to be who I am and be true to myself. I won't sugar coat the truth to avoid trampling some fragile flower. Love, truth and honesty are the most important things in this world. It is not loving, or honest, or truthful to give someone a false reality and a false sense of security. V.
October 24, 2002

Comment: I FUCKING NO THE WORLD IS AN UNFORGIVING PLACE REMMEBER I AM THE ONE THAT WAS RAPED NINE YRS EVERY NITE SO DONT COME IN HERE BEING A BULLY AND EXPRESS YOUR CRAP I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE HERE THIS PLACE IS FOR VICTIMS AND MAYBE U NEED TO LEARN HOW TO TREAT PEOPLE THAT BEEN ABUSED PENNY
October 24, 2002

Comment: Thank you for your kind words, Penny. I guess I deserve it since I presumed to think I could try to help you somehow. You are drawing attention to yourself by the way you post and please do not be so eager to jump on someone who is trying to be kind to you. V.
October 24, 2002

Comment: Penny, this bastard who raped you for 9 years ??? My god, how can this sort of thing go on ?? Is he still alive, because I don't think he should be. His life should be stamped out of existence. "and your eye should feel no sorrow"
October 24, 2002

Comment: TRYING TO BE KIND TO ME? BY TELLING ME I SHOULD BECOME SOME TOUGH PERSON? GET REAL MAN. I DONT NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU IN MY LIFE TELLING ME TO TOUGHEN UP SO IN CASE OTHERS HURT ME I BEEN FUCKING HURT MORE THEN U WILL EVER KNOW IN MY LIFE. MAYBE U NEED TO LEARN HOW TO ALLOW VICTIMS TO VENT AND SAY WHAT THEY ARE FEELING DO NOT EVER TELL ME AGAIN WHAT THE HELL I SHOULD DO THIS FORUM WAS MADE FOR PEOPLE LIKE ME SO WE WOULD HAVE A PLACE TO COME TO THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE I KNOW OF ON THE NET I CAN COME AND BE REAL AND NOT BE BOOTED PENNY
October 24, 2002

Comment: Yes the molestation went on for 9 yrs from 5-14 i was sexually abused by my real father and yes my mom knew and did nothing and people wonder why i feel so confused inside my dad is dead now and yes i am glad but i am still in pain over all this because i don't know what the hell normal is all i saw growing up is abuse and sex being used as something women had to do because that's what they were made for and now i am 38 yrs old and have no clue how to have a normal relationship Penny
October 24, 2002

Comment: OK so some of the people posting here are ignorant. But we all have some interest in the subject matter or we wouldn't be here. We are either here because we have an interest in abuse issues, to diss JW's, or to defend them. Some of us maybe all three. But we haven't been trained in how to deal with abuse victims. It's all very well to dump on somebody but do they know HOW to act or WHAT to say ? Some of us don't have a clue what it's like to be abused. We don't know what to say to the victims, so we just say what we think. Why push people away who might be able to help your cause and spread the word ? Try to educate them, don't just send abuse flying back and forth.
October 24, 2002

Comment: WHY IN THE HELL WOULD U DEFEND A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT KNOWLY PROTECTS CHILD MOLESTERS? AS A CHILD THAT WAS MOLESTED I CAN TELL YOU THE PAIN AND IT HURTS MORE THEN U WILL EVER KNOW TO KNOW ASSHOLES ARE OUT THERE PROTECTING PEOPLE THAT HURT US WHETHER IN THE PAST OR EVEN NOW WHY WOULD ANYONE WANNA PROTECT PEOPLE THAT HURT CHILDREN? WHAT HAPPENED TO PROTECTING CHILDREN AND MAKING THE ADULT BE RESPONSIBLE NOW IT SEEMS MORE CHILD MOLESTERS SEEM TO GET AWAY WITH THINGS AND THATS REALLY SICK THAT TELLS YOU WHAT KIND OF SOCIETY WE LIVE IN V BY THE WAY I AM SORRY YOU DONT LIKE THE WAY I POST BUT THATS TO BAD BECAUSE I WILL EXPRESS MY PAIN AND I AM NOT GONNA ASK U IF I CAN OR NOT TELL THE WEBMASTER I AM NOT ALLOWED TO BE HERE OR EVEN EXPRESS AND SEE WHAT HE SAYS PENNY
October 24, 2002

Comment: I don't see anyone here defending JW's.
October 24, 2002

Comment: why should we defend jw's??? there a cult as far as i am concerned there false teachers and lie and twist the bible so why would i defend someone like that? They came in my home for months having bible study and good thing a real christian came along and showed me the truth or i would still be involved with this cult i was getting into Penny
October 24, 2002

Comment: WEBMASTER sir i apologize for my anger but i am sick of coming in here and having to deal with some of the assholes in here. This forum is the only forum on the net that allows us to vent our pain and for that i say thank you now i am signing off for the nite Penny
Comment: IP blocking test in progress. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 IP address's are being blocked currently to test the new codes. . . . . . . . . . webmaster
October 24, 2002

Comment: Penny you hang in there. Some people and I call them that with disdain, enjoy getting a rise out of people. They see feeling as weakness. Ignore the piss ants and know that your considered family here. You are right to be here and tell your story. Thank you for doing so. I see you as very strong to have gone though all that you have and be able to come here. I see it as noble to share what has happened in the hope and will to say that it should be addressed. That things as they are is not good enough, not acceptable. You are strong Penny. Others, who ever can not see that has lost their humanity. One day when they find it they will regret the cruel and unnecessary words they decided that needed to sprout from their hearts. -Jayson
October 24, 2002

Comment: V - you don't know how to help ,so I recommend you go back thru the months and read the posts that do comfort. You could also read Jayson's post as an example of how to help. You do not give the impression that you are strong enough to help. As Jayson said: Penny is very strong. But as I say that is no reason or cause to hurt her, be mean and not comfort. If she were in my home I would wrap her in a soft blanket. Everyone needs love. I have children her age and if she were my daughter I would protect her. V- you don't have to come here to help. Just read and absorb the pain until you understand. That will bring out your love and then you will know how to help.
October 24, 2002

Comment: V: You really aren't one to give advice, the world is cruel and heartless because people like you don't want it to change. Leave Penny alone, she is a dealing with a grief you have obviously no clue about as I have said before "until you walk the walk don't try to talk the talk" . Sheila M
October 24, 2002

Comment: Folks, sorry for the mess, some abusers of this guest book are tenacious. It is taking a bit more work to get the mules attention. I have had to resort to a larger stick. The IP blocker is working very well, the current abuser is using a floating IP address with his dial up. I will eventually catch all the address's and stop many of the games. Sorry for the inconvenience and May God bless each of your lives with an abundance of peace. In Him. . . . webmaster
October 24, 2002

Comment: Question: Is there a support group for people who have lost loved ones because of the Organizations cruel shunning policy?
Comment: Dear Readers i've been busy the last week or so . To penny my heart goes out to you what a horrible thing for a father to do. I'm not sure what's the worst him doing that to you or your mother knowing about it and saying nothing. And to readers i must apologize about the no name person who put that thing on he has no right to judge anyone even Jesus would not pass judgment upon Satan and as a witness he had no right to say what he said assuming he's a he. Its people like that and the other . 8% of some JW's that give the organization a bad name. But just as Jehovah had to cleanse the Israelites back in 607bce so to he will cleanse his organization of the evil too. I thing i must say however is that Jehovah's organization on the earth is the faithful and discreet slave the WTS is the legal side of the organization. However it is the Governing Body that supplies us with the spiritual food at the proper time. And i hope very much that they will clean up this business soon . Because unfortunately it does bring reproach on Jehovah's name if some child molesting was covered up. Lev5:1 Regards Josh
October 24, 2002

Comment: JOSH: it will never be cleaned up by the GB for reasons i mentioned to Janice a few weeks ago. RICH
October 25, 2002

Comment: The Watchtower is not "Gods only channel and voice" on this earth. This is what people have to get past. This is why there is a problem. The GB lacks ACCOUNTABILITY to members because they have convinced many they are under the direction of God. They are not. All you have here is a new religion(120 years compared to Christianity) that has had very low success with predictions with time deadlines. What about all the other information they pass out that is not time sensitive. Come on folks. You can clean out the inside of a garbage can, but if it still holds garbage, then what is the use.
October 25, 2002

Comment: Josh, I agree with Rich. The mess will never be cleaned up by the GB. They have power. And power corrupts. Promoting the erroneous notion that they deserve that power plays into their ability to keep that power. Josh, do some research on that cherished 607 BCE date and you will see that they do not possess the credentials for being the "faithful" slave or the claim for being a governing body over Christians. They are just a bunch of power hungry old men trying to hold onto the power. Acknowledging that any of them have made a mistake or promoted a bad policy would be giving up power. Reproach on Jehovah seems to be the least of their concerns. Reform is out of the question. The best we can hope for is to publicly expose their bad policies to protect future abuse of innocent children and to give voice to those who have been abused as a way for them to heal from the abuse. The so called GB does not get any respect from me. I refuse to play into their claim to fame and power. ****So on a lighter note. Hi all. I have been away for awhile (mentally)Sometimes I have to shut down to survive. I am fine. I got DA'd because I refused to go thru another inquisition hearing and I will not go back to the KH. So far none of my baptized children have agreed to shun me. They will be drug over the coals next. When a person begins to think for themselves they become an enemy of the GB. and the organization. *** I have a very low budget so my participation in the Silentlambs campaign has went like this. I made copies of "Tiny" the Silentlamb on card stock. She looked so cute! I cut her out and attached a pink yarn string to her. Next I made copies of the brochure, rolled it into a scroll and tied it with a pink string. I went around to the Kingdom Halls in my area here in Tampa, Florida. I tied Tiny and the scroll to KH doors and fences. I felt SO good doing that. I plan to do it again soon. After all different people arrive first each meeting. So that is my low budget campaign. I may get down sometimes but I refuse to stay down. Love Ya'll, Loris
October 25, 2002

Comment: Welcome back Loris My name is Penny I am 38 single never married and a survivor 9 yrs of child molestation and learning how to heal with people in here. I am very out spoken sometimes because of some of things said in here but i am a really cool person LOL Again welcome back Penny
October 25, 2002

Comment: Loris - it is soooo good to read your post. Go to jwinfoline. com - there are many audio tapes there to listen to that will get you out of the doldrums. You are absolutely correct that the WTS will not be brought down, nor will they change. I lost your email address when I spilled wine on my computer, email me whenever you want. The address is the same. I never ever thought I would go to a "church" - but I did. I just "happen" to attend a church that Kevin Quick belongs to and he is an exjw, wrote a book even and you can hear his story on jwinfoine. Be great for your children to hear these tapes too, before they meet with the elders. I think of you often and would have emailed you if I had not lost your address. Love, Claudine
October 25, 2002

Comment: Josh - please listen to the tapes - at jwinfoline. com. Some of the facts will blow your socks off. You are very sweet and I know you love God. The WTS started with spiritism -some of their doctrine comes right from a book written by a guy name Grievers whose wife was a spirit medium. He wrote a book called Communication with the spirit World of God - and need I say that the WTS forbids the reading of this book yet their doctrine is the same regarding Jesus as this man's. There is a wonderful audio tape by Lori Macgreggor about how the WTS changed the bible's wording - she is very factual. You can determine for yourself what it is about/. You do know that a pyramid sits upon the grave of Russell - These are things detestable to Jehovah. Jesus is the way, the life and the truth - not the WTS. He is our Master. For 18 years I was certain that the WTS was the truth. And now I am certain that they lie. If Jehovah has an "organization" I am certain that it would not be one that lied or had anything remotely connected to spiritism & the occults. Most JWs are good people and they are deceived by the deceiver.
October 25, 2002

Comment: Well nice to see a few comments i've always excepted constructive criticism. If the faithful and discreet slave or the Governing Body on the earth does not represent God then who does? As far as removing garbage that's a little bit judgmental. I've met some of the governing body they are very meek and humble people and are not power hungry . There is not one person who controls the WTS. While i understand the anger some victims may have its the criminal that done that despicable thing to you that should be punished not the WTS. Again i have an open mind like the Bereans in Jesus day i "carefully consider what is being said" to see if it is just so. I certainly would not want to be part of an organization that condones or covers up child molesting. We all are accountable to Jehovah God and regardless of whether we are the faithful and discreet slave or the great crowd we will be held accountable for our actions. 2Pet3:9 Regards Josh
October 25, 2002

Comment: Comment: *****the mole*** I must admit that I do not believe I am an apostate nor do I bow to false gods but I can claim that even the jews killed their prophets. I admit I'm far from being a prophet but the example is the same, that is, i will be ridiculed for making a stand. I do not believe christ is a god it goes against the psalms 83:18 and other scriptures. I simply want people to know that molestation does exist in the kingdom halls along with other abuses that men would rather ignore and sweep under the so called carpet of faith. There are many thinking witnesses who are repelled by such blatant expressions of blind faith. Yet most are still willing to conform, even to take judicial action against any who express doubts to the society's interpretations. Why? I try in my own mind and heart to understand the feelings of all these persons, including those on the governing body. Based on my own experience among those in my hall, i believe that they are, in effect, the captives of a concept. The concept of a mental image they have of the organization and the world around them, that is to be set apart or different, a feeling of being superior, god's people. The concept controls them, moves them, or restrains them. I do not believe that many of them would take the position they now take if they thought only in the terms of god, christ, or the holy book and NOT THE ORGANIZATION, they would have more of a feeling of brotherhood to all fellow humans. Their thoughts have been radically altered and their viewpoint mutated because of the controlling force of this concept. I too catch myself thinking of why i became a M. S. in my hall, and I'm still wondering why i am so afraid to lose my family if i leave tomorrow, its the concept of control which entraps me. It is not a sin to doubt them it is a fundamental right, so we are not mislead by men and an organization created by men. . . ***the mole****
October 25, 2002

Comment: Josh: Of course it is the perpetrators that did the despicable thing. They need to be held accountable. But it is the perpetuation that is the issue for the GB. The society's structure that perpetuates it. I want to tell you something, with every ounce of sincerity I have. I left a cong. at about the time an MS was DF'd for molesting his daughter - a close friend of my sister's, sister of a friend of mine. Over the years, the friends I grew up with became the elders and MSs in that hall. If ever there was a group that I KNOW would not tolerate that crap - it would be those guys. AND they are in a Hall where it happened before. I just found out TODAY that one of my former best friends - one that brought himself into the 'Truth' as a young teenager- has a young daughter that was molested AT THAT SAME Hall. With all my former friends that I know would never tolerate such a thing, they tolerated it. 'Joe' couldn't get the elders or the CO to do anything. So he just moved to another Hall. You are right in the middle of it. You don't hear about it because of the control the Society has. Yes they are quite guilty. - Buster (a little heartsick today)
October 25, 2002

Comment: josh ; how can you come here and LIE IN THE NAME OF GOD FOR THE WT???? who was the people who told penny's mom not to go to the police???? it was the elders that the wt says that are appointed by the holy sprit ??? so in essence you are saying the holy sprit is directing the gb and elders to hush up child molestation to keep jehovah's name clean. . . you make me cry. . . with such a line of CRAp!!!!! it's the gb that's makes the jw's look bad with all their 125 years of bull crap!!!! jehovah never did a nothing in 607 b. c. get your bible and history CORRECT. . . IN JEREMIAH IT CLEARLY SAYS THAT NATIONS WILL GIVE SERVITUDE TO BABYLON FOR 70 YEARS. . . THAT STARTED IN 609 B. C. WHEN BABYLON TOOK OVER THE ASSERIANS 5 YEARS LATER THEY THEY BEAT THE JEWS. . AND ALL OTHER KINGDOMS IN THE AREA. . BUT THE COUNTRY WAS NOT DESTROYED FOR AND OTHER 18 YEARS. . . THAT TOOK PLACE IN 586-7 BC. . YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A MATH PROFESSER TO SHOW THAT THE BIBLE AND HISTORY SHOW THAT THE WT IS WRONG. . . . IT'S SIMPLE DAYS STUDY IN THE LIBRARY WITH HISTORY AND THE BIBLE. . IT ALL FITS PERFECTLY. . . WITHOUT TWISTING THE BIBLE!!!!!!!!! proper spiritual food at the proper time?????ho ho ho. . . . the fds HO_HO_HO_ no jw can back that up. . . it is all a lie!!!!! jesus choose the wt in 1919????ho-ho-ho- who all here from the teachings of the wt from that time ????? how jesus choose the wt. . . if at all jesus conferred that the wt was the EVIL SLAVE!!!! AND THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN . . . . the wt conventions of the 20's were the pouring out of the 7 bowls in the book of Revelations. . . . ho-ho-ho- how stupid do you think we are here. . . . . do your homework on the wt . . you will see it's all a LIE!!!!! wishful thinking. . . . not a bit of truth to it. . just more wt bull!!! josh you keep defending the wt. . . but you really know next to nothing about them. . . one day you will be in for a rude awaking. . . better hope it's not to late. . . may you be blessed with the holy sprit. . . . your friend . . john
October 25, 2002

Comment: josh ; is thaT THE verse to show that there is two classes of christians???? boy are you lost. . there is only one hope. . boy do you need to read the gospel. . . it was written for all . . . not a few people in bklyn. . if that was the case the n. t. would have never been published. . . i'm praying for you. . . john
October 25, 2002

Comment: Josh, consider doing something for me? Listen to claudine. You know she agrees with about nothing I say but I say here. . . Listen to her. Listen to the tapes. Take her advice. It's wise. It could help you more than you know. Listen to her. Now you once told a story. The flaw is, and question I ask you is why did the father and son worry about what a stranger thought in regard to their donkey? Were they worried about image? I think yes. Unless there is a law about 2 people riding on a ass at once. What do they care?/// Second your last post; you are really saying through the double talk and jargon if the wt is not the boss of me then who is? Who represent God on my behalf? How about you. You be the boss of you. You be the rep for what is good. It does not matter if you accept that challenge or not that is the way it is. Coercion and covering up crimes is harassment. It is often illegal. It is always immoral and unethical. Why was the WTBS more concerned with acquiring land and money in Mexico until a few years ago; As opposed to being recognized As a bona fide religion in that country? If not to choose money over being able to worship Jehovah openly? That is what they did Josh. read COC They choose money over Jehovah again and again and again. That is the tie here Josh. Money over victims. Last, again, you may not hear me but listen to soapbox. /// Buster, I will always carry a little of that heavy heart for you. That is why I am here. -Jayson
October 25, 2002

Comment: Mole- You are not an apostate. And, that is a very dirty word. I equal it to calling someone a nigger. It is vile. It is not about God it is about labeling people. Making them less than human. You are human and I pray you stay that way. You are aware of your humanity. Stand strong in your faith in God. Keep your integrity in tact. But, there may come a time when you have choose. Choose wisely. -Jayson
October 25, 2002

Comment: The following comments are taken from: http://www. jehovahs-witness. com/forum/thread. aspx?id=39318&page=3&site=3#537759 --------- To Silentlambs: You said on jw. com the following, 1. Do other church members have the shepherd dominated mentality JWs have? 2. Do other churches allow sex offenders complete anonymity within the church when it is discovered? 3. Do other churches advise that the minister has the last word when molestation issues arise? 4. Do other churches lead members to believe their investigatorial measures are the best way to determine if a person has committed a crime? 5. Do other churches advise the best way to help a troubled person is to tell them to endure and wait for Gods Kingdom to solve their problems? 6. Do other churches take a person who is troubled because of molestation, who has begun self-destructive behaviors and disfellowship them, ostracizing them from the people who would be in the best position to help them? 7. Do other churches require two witnesses to the actual event of molestation before taking any disciplinary measures? 8. Do other churches threaten parents of molested children with disfellowshipment if they try to warn other members whose children may be in danger? 9. Do other churches remove ministers who warn parents of the danger of a certain pedophile molesting their children? 10. Do other churches provide zero training when it comes to how to direct a molested child to get the help they need? The answer to all 10 questions you mentioned above is a resounding "NO"! Which means Jehovah's Witnesses as a organization, are completely different from all other religions and they definitely have the ripe field for the makings of a "Pedophile Paradise". You Bill Bowen, have proven something great. You have proven JWs possess an incredible UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCE among themselves, as far as religions go in our day. Namely, Jehovah's Witnesses incredibly are much worse than all other religions in this particular instance, since they have made the perfect "bed" for dangerous pedophiles to lie in. And Bill Bowen, you personally have proven your point, quite spectacularly, on an international scale. And I assure you, this is no small feat nor act on your part too, as many JWs and former JWs have taken note. My kindest regards to you, personally, for the good work that you are doing. To Carl O. Jonsson: My kindest regards to you, personally, for the good work that you have done. To Everyone else on this Discussion Board who wish to continue this "Attack Ray Franz" thread: What I'm about to say, will no doubt be viewed quite irreverently by many here. However, others will get my point immediately and thank me for having the guts and courage to FINALLY say it openly on this Most Excellent Discussion Board once and for all. THE RAYMOND V. FRANZ SAGA Let's go back in the past, and look at the real facts here. Now, when COJ sent his incredibly well researched, magnificently brilliant manuscripts (in my honest opinion) on August 1977 to Brooklyn Bethel, the powerfully revealing ones that R. V Franz himself said created such a stir among Bethel "Heavies" (Writing & Service Dept. ), inadvertently they proved something not fully digested or comprehended up till then. Those "manuscripts" proved that JEHOVAH'S SPIRIT was not with "Bethel", and not with the WTS. But, Carl himself didn't fully realize this at that time. He didn't fully realize, or comprehend the "serious implications" and volatile "truths" borne forth in his "research". COJ was just trying to "effect change" in our viewpoint of what we taught as an organization. And that's it. And for those reasons, COJ wanted in the beginning, to STAY WITH THE ORGANIZATION, just like Bill Bowen. Yes, Bill Bowen has said many times, that after all is said and done, after the WTS corrected their child molestation problems, he simply wanted to stay with the JW Organization. And Carl said the same thing, even after sending the Treatise to Bethel. It was his hope (the same as B. B. ) that the "brothers" would see the error of their way and humbly change. That was his sole purpose. That is all Carl wanted. He just wanted to cause REFORM, REFORM, REFORM, Change. The same as Bill Bowen. The same. But as you recall, after COJ mailed in his Treatise, Albert S. , Lyman S. and Dan. S. (the three "S" brothers) for instance knew exactly what his "findings" meant for the JW Organization, and knew exactly where this new information might lead. Yes, as members of the Governing Body, they knew full well, exactly what Carl's writings meant. But still, I don't think COJ himself, knew what the words on the paper, meant. But Bethel did. RV Franz knew what it meant. Especially after having written the "chronology" section in the "Aid Book". Essentially, unknowingly at that time, COJ was actually correcting RV Franz, in actuality. He was also correcting the "Governing Body" of JWs. A complete no-no. Something rarely if ever done by someone without "catching the ship. . . the disfellowship". So, in 1977 everybody who was anybody, knew what this meant. RV Franz and the rest of the Governing Body, knew this Treatise, if it had gotten out among the brothers, would prove to be the ultimate "DEATH STROKE" of the JW Organization! The "Death Stroke" Treatise, is what it would have been called, if this "truth" Treatise should get out. The WTS' "chronology" was wrong, and completely proven so by the lone man, CARL O. JONSSON, from Sweden! And that was a simple fact. Was Jehovah God correcting the entire JW Organization and its Governing Body, by way of this single man, COJ of Sweden? Hmmmmmm. Or, was it just positive proof that God really had nothing to do with JW's Organization, period. A great dilemma for anyone who was exposed and properly understood what COJ had written. If this "Treatise" could find its way to the masses, and they could properly comprehend and realize its importance to JW Doctrine, the Governing Body of JWs and all JWs worldwide, would be finished! It would be the end of the JW's organization visible credibility before others. It would also be a certain "death stroke" for any and all, thinking JWs. Then too, it would be a massive "mess" to try to explain any corrections of the 1914 teaching to the world at large, in field service, if the G. B. opted to make necessary changes in their "chronology" printed in their publications. So what should the "Society" do? Humbly change, accept correction? Or attack the messenger, malign his good name and finally murder him, which? The Governing Body's decision would be, the solution they would predictably choose would be to "get rid" of this lone man, just as they said of Jesus. "Let one man die", for the good of the nation, they presumed. Let's keep the peace among the brotherhood. That would be their reason for doing this terrible thing in Jesus' day. And the same in our day. Let's "kill" COJ! John 11:50 says, ". . . you do not reason out that it is to your benefit for one man to die in behalf of the people and not for the whole nation to be destroyed. " Kill Jesus and save the nation. Doesn't that make sense? So COJ has to go, but the JW organization will continue. It will continue with all of its lying chronology. But the nation continues. This is how the Governing Body reasons. The Governing Body and the Sanhedrin of Jesus' day, were and are, the same in this respect. So COJ's influence must be contained. First try to "shut him up", and if that doesn't work, discredit him and finally kill him. ***That was a Governing Body Decision, WHILE RV Franz was on the Governing Body, *** although COJ was not officially disfellowshipped until 1982. Has this fact escaped our notice? You want proof? Case in point, this revealing statement from "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" (1986 edition) by Carl O. Jonsson: "Early in August, 1978, Albert D. Schroeder, a member of the Governing Body, held a meeting in Europe with representatives from European Watchtower branch offices. At that meeting, he told the audience that there was a campaign going on both inside the movement and from outside to have the Society's 607 B. C. E. - 1914 C. E. chronology overthrown. The Society, however, had no intention of abandoning it, he stated. " He said the WTS had no intention of abandoning the "chronology". He spoke what the Governing Body had decided on the matter. He spoke this in 1978, one year after the Treatise of COJ had arrived at Bethel. So they had plenty of time to "study" it. The publications continues: "Three weeks later, on September 2, I was summoned to a hearing before two representatives of the Watchtower Society in Sweden. I was told that they had been COMMISSIONED BY THE SOCIETY'S BRANCH OFFICE to hold such a hearing because "the brothers" at the Brooklyn headquarters [where RV FRANZ lived] were deeply concerned about my treatise. . . " The Governing Body was "deeply concerned about my treatise". What? The same Governing Body that RV Franz was on? You must be kidding! Now, how could such a statement be made, with the Governing Body NOT discussing the matter, I ask? Actually, everybody who was in the know, was talking about the Treatise through out the hallowed halls of Bethel. This was no secret. And this is a year later too, in 1978, after having plenty of time to "investigate" what the brother from Sweden was saying. He continues: ". . . Partly as a result of this meeting, I resigned from my position as an elder in the local congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, explaining why in a lengthy letter to to my fellow elders. Soon it became widely known among my Witness brothers in different parts of Sweden that I had rejected the chronology of the Society. In the following months I and others who had questioned the Society's chronology began to be condemned privately as well as from the platforms of kingdom halls and at Witness assemblies or conventions. we were publicly defamed and characterized in the most negative terms as "rebellious," "presumptuous," "false prophets," "small prophets who work out their own little chronology," and "heretics. " we were called "dangerous elements in the congregations," "evil slaves," "blasphemers," as well as "immoral, lawless ones. " Privately, some of our Witness brothers, including a number of the Watchtower Society's traveling representatives, also intimated that we were "demon possessed," that we had "drenched the Society with criticism" and that we "should have been disfellowshipped long ago. " These are just a few examples of the widespread defamation which has gone on ever since. . . In a letter to Albert Schroeder, dated December 6, 1978, I described the new turn of events, calling attention to the sad fact that although my treatise had been composed with the greatest thoughtfulness and sent to the Society in all sincerity, I had become the victim of backbiting, vilification and character assassination. . . "-- See The Gentile Times Reconsidered (1986) pages 5, 6 Now, all of this happened in 1978, while RV Franz was a powerful member of the Governing Body. So all the while COJ was being barbequed, crucified by the "WTS", for teaching his wicked "little chronology", and the Governing Body on the rampage against him, where for God's sake was RV Franz, I ask you? The facts reveal in August 1978, exactly one year after receiving "The Treatise" from COJ, the Governing Body's "official position" toward what Carl wrote, as revealed by Albert S , was what? Total brutalization! Mindless slander. Smearing his reputation among the brothers. Malicious lying on him. Even though he pleaded, pleaded that what he wrote was in complete "sincerity" to help the JW brothers. Now how are you going to get RV Franz "OFF THE HOOK", on the basis of that situation? You can't. He was ON the Governing Body when all of this was going on. And he knew more about the false "chronology" than anyone else on the Governing Body at that time, since he had given the issues EXTENSIVE RESEARCH before hand. Perhaps, even more than the intellectually DISHONEST, incorrigibly dishonest, Fred Franz, his uncle. So he certainly "knew" the subject quite well. (Some say as early as 1969, RV Franz knew the 607 BCE teaching was false!) So, from my perspective, it doesn't matter if COJ "forgave" Raymond Franz or not for what happened in 1978. That's not my business. I'm only concerned with the facts. And the facts reveal RV Franz, as a member of the Governing Body of JWs, was a part of this "devastating situation" that permanently branded COJ of being an "apostate" against the Governing Body, and against ALL JWs worldwide. God is the witness, and that history of events cannot be erased by man, or the uninformed, misdirection of those who wish to glorify the ignominy of heartless men. I don't care how much you people (and COJ included) "like" RV Franz, since its not material nor relevant to God and Jesus Christ, from my perspective. Facts say RV Franz was a part of the persecution of COJ, period. And Ray will have to "live with the consequences" of his actions. Perhaps, his writing the 2 books was "his" way of clearing the slate. I don't know. If so, then fine. God is his final judge, not me and certainly not any on this discussion board. But a fact is still a fact. We must not embellish our own unique "history" of events about the "glories of RV Franz", to make our point. We must just "call a spade a spade" and realistically face the facts as they have transpired in the past. Fact: COJ's efforts, and NOT RV Franz's, proved something. COJ, the person, PROVED by his discoveries in his "Treatise" the truth that the Governing Body, and this worldwide organization, was truly not "spirit-motivated", "spirit-directed" at all. His "Treatise" proved the WTS was NOT the F&DS class and that there were no ANOINTED to be found among Jehovah's Witnesses, period. He proved that to me. And he proved it to countless other thinking individuals in numerous congregations of JWs worldwide. COJ's writings PROVED that the Governing Body and 6 million JWs worldwide ARE NOT "spirit-motivated" and they are NOT a "spirit-directed" organization. That's a fact. RV Franz must only admit in his 2 books, that if anything, for those 9 years he was a member of the Governing Body, the only thing he had accomplished ostensibly was to show for the most part, he was a PART of the "problem" in misleading people. He was a part of the problem, and NOT a part of the "solution". He was NOT a part of the "remedy" to correct the problem. His 2 books mainly show all of the "dirt" of the G. B. in running the organization. The pettiness of G. B. members and so on. And even that was "toned down" considerably in both of RV Franz's books. And I think for his sakes, thus understandably so. Whereas, when we look back in the past, we must admit, COJ and Bill Bowen were a part of the "solution" to the problem. Even if JWs are not from God (and I still believe they are for "other" reasons), still these men accomplished much that they can be proud of before God and man. Yes, they helped me and countless others see the JW Organization, at this point and up to this point, is NOT "Spirit-Directed". And I and many others, needed to know this. And with that "knowledge," now, I need to find out why, these people are NOT "spirit-directed". They are either God abandoned, or He never was there in the first place. Either way, I need to know which is the correct answer. But at least I know the "real deal", because of Bill Bowen's work, his bravery, and his courage -- and Carl Jonnson's work, his bravery and courage. I know because of them, I say. Praise Jah for these brothers! These "Jesus-like" men, wanted change, reform. They advocated "adjustment" and were unjustly VILLIFIED FOR IT. But, they stood their ground, against all odds, stood by themselves, and was "murdered", their reputation, their good name taken away, they were martyred like Jesus, for their stance. You can never prove this to be true of the course RV Franz took, as revealed in his 2 books. Ray was an "escape" artist, trying his best to get the heck out of "Dodge City" before the real gun fight began. He was one who had the "knowledge" but did nothing with it. I'm sorry but I have to say it, he was a gutless, coward! So, in my mind when you say the name Raymond V. Franz even with all of his notoriety, you are saying one thing. But when you say COJ and BB, you are saying quite another, from a shall we say, "christian" point of view. From a Godly point of view. Honestly, we have to admit when we look at the facts, there is no difference between the actual "works" of COJ and Bill Bowen. They both discovered flaw in JW organization policy and practice, doctrine. They were both brave men. Loyal to "truth" and "righteousness". And Jesus said we need to "seek first" both of those things. (Matt. 6:33) History reveals Raymond V. Franz discovered serious flaws in the teaching of 1914 too. He discovered there was no historical support at all for the chronology teaching of 607. Still Ray went ahead and violated his conscience (thus the phrase "Crisis of Conscience, the title of his first book), and superciliously wrote the "chronology" section in the "Aid Book", which mislead countless MILLIONS of JWs. That's the part he played in our spiritual growth. He crippled us. In 1971 when he and Reinhart L. and Edward D. finished the "Aid Book", Ray knew the brothers was wrong on their 1914 chronology, maybe as early as 1969. He had the facts then. But that's as far as it went. R. V. Franz heartlessly opted to do as sooooooooooo many JWs do when they see something wrong in the "organization" THAT THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN AWAY for some reason, they just "go along to get along". And that's what RV Franz did, back between the critical years of 1969-1971 when he finally completed his writing and findings of the "chronology" section of the "Aid Book" which misled many millions of innocent people who deserved better. Which meant, anyone from that time forward who opposed this faulty "chronology" would be summarily be invited to "catch the ship. . . the disfellowship". But there is more for RV Franz. Back in August of 1977, six years after the "Aid book" was finished, back when COJ submitted his more extensive, clarifying information, Ray DEFINITELY knew the "chronology" section of the "Aid Book" was wrong by then. Now, all of sudden, RV Franz now has even more evidence, he has now the profound corroborating "evidence" COJ, in written form. And not only that, but RV Franz, by that time, a most prolific writer and outstanding member on the member of the Governing Body, now has the surprising support of both the entire Writing and Service Dept, all who read the "bombshell" treatise of Aug. 1977. The "bombshell", written by COJ, that Ray himself said, "created such a stir" within the hallowed walls of Bethel. Ray had that too to help him make a stand before the Governing Body, back in 1977. Did he do this? No. So then, we must ask: where was RV FRANZ when Albert S. spoke his famous words in 1978 AGAINST COJ? Where was RV FRANZ then? I don't doubt, these events and many others eventually led RV Franz to make his "decision" to leave the G. B. in March of 1980. I realize that. But, it would be close to another 3 years before any "action" on Ray's part. And his unique "solution" to the problem would simply be to quietly, leave Bethel, and quietly, find himself some "employment" where he could take care of HIMSELF and family, and that's it. No step, even at this time, to help the brothers, who are "left in the valley of danger" because of the treachery of the WTS. Yes, RV Franz had NO INTENTION, and that's no intention, to WRITE NO WONDERFUL BOOKS on the corruption of the G. B. at that time. And He admitted that himself. RV Franz wasn't thinking about helping nobody, while first in Gadsden, Ala. No, and even after that, as he stated in his books, he had NO such intentions at all of revealing the WTS corruption. If the G. B. would have left him alone, that would have been the end of it, and many of us, as the hapless "uninformed" would still be in the JW Organization, CALLING COJ an apostate! So, unforeseen circumstances FORCED RV Franz to write his 2 wonderful books, and thus creating "Commentary Press", the publishing arm of many of the ex-JW books we now read today. Because so far as RV Franz was concerned in 1980, if the WTS and G. B. would have left him alone, he would have KEPT HIS BIG MOUTH SHUT!!! Why? Because was still a baptized brother, still well-received and accepted as a "brother in good standing" who could have pioneered if he had wanted to, back in 1980. Remember, the G. B. offered him a "Special Pioneer" position (and his wife, complete with a little "check" you know) while he was among the brotherhood in Alabama. So then, everything that happened to Ray, was forced upon him too. When his "trouble" started came from things that he slipped and said while at Bethel. Also more trouble from eating a meal, with his disassociated "employer", the one who gives Ray money for work. They one who provided Ray with a "trailer" to live in. The one RV Franz was definitely LOYAL to P. Gregerson, in Gadsden, Ala. that's all I see in this man. When we look at the facts, without all of this mythical embellishment of RV Franz's historic, triumphant leadership on the Governing Body between the years of 1971-1980, we do not see a "martyr", like BB or COJ, do we? Remember, if Raymond Franz had been as forthright and straightforward as E. Dunlap when confronted with their "transgressions" against the WTS, then, guess what -- Raymond V. Franz would have been DISFELLOWSHIPED WITH EDWARD DUNLAP! They would have "caught that ship" together. They would have went down together! Why didn't he stand with his faithful brother (E. Dunlap) and face the "consequences of his actions" and have their dual "executions" together. But the facts reveal he did no such thing, did he? Read his books and see. So, RV Franz, so UNLIKE brave, staunch E. Dunlap, Carl J. , Bill B. , simply valued staying in the organization of a more greater worth, and HYPOCRITICALLY keeping his "private beliefs" to himself (as many of you do on this discussion board) to be of greater importance, than in true Jesus-like-fashion standing for "principle", standing for "truth" and "righteousness" even if it means EXECUTION. Now many might not like that statement, but it is truth. And I say, all "evidence" found in RV Franz' own testimony of how the events transpired in 1980 at Brooklyn Bethel, all found in his books which eloquently tell the story. Case closed. However, a much different story must be told, when history speaks about Bill Bowen, Edward Dunlap, Barbara Anderson, and Carl Olof Jonsson. They all wanted change. They all invited the Governing Body to "review" their erroneous position and "do good" to their brothers in the faith, did they not? And they all fearlessly stood BEFORE the Governing Body, and advocated change. For that, all four (4) were all disfellowshipped, reputation maligned, and martyred for trying to HELP THE BROTHERS. They were "killed" for the cause of righteousness. Therefore, they were very "Jesus-like" in that they were both willing "martyrs" for the cause of right, in God's eyes. They gave the "fine public declaration" before Jesus and God Almighty. They were WICKEDLY sacrificed for the good of the "nation" as John 11:50 says. -- See also 1 Timothy 6:13. As for RV Franz, at 80 years old, as he reflects upon his "legacy", he must remember, we all make our beds and have to lie in it one day. Inescapably, his "day" has come. He must remember, in good conscience when he accepted the RESPONSIBILITY to become a member of the Governing Body, he knew then he had better be prepared to live with the total consequences of his actions forever more. To be sure for any of us, to become a part of a policy-making body for an organization or group of people of more than 6 million, in which the critical decisions we reach could potentially have such devastating, catastrophic results to these same millions of people worldwide, is no small responsibility before God and man, is no small task to accept. Few will ever, have such a responsibility cast upon them. Few will ever has so much ACCCOUNTABILITY before God and man. I will give RV Franz this, in 1980, perhaps he saw it was really time to "leave" Bethel and the Governing Body. I give Ray that. For that was a "good" decision on his part. But, I give Bill Bowen, Carl O. Jonsson, Barbara Anderson, and the recently deceased Edward Dunlap, my award for true christian "bravery", down to their last drop of blood. Amen. bjc
October 25, 2002

Comment: Jayson: Thank you. Today has had its twists. I feel its been a bit if a new look at the situation. Finding out today that a friend's daughter was molested was one thing. I've known victims before - Witness and non-witness. But this is the closest I've ever been to the cover-uppers. My old friends should be in a position to influence the situation - most of them being elders by now. These were the most committed people I ever met - even if they are witnesses. I at least believed that about them. Now I can only imagine what shells of men they are now. Twenty more years of indoctrination and repression resulted in one of most sincere people I've known to be the type that would find that his daughter is molested, and stay in a society that would not allow anything to be done. - And the most he does is change halls? Where are the rest of the guys? We rode dirt bikes together. Drank our first beer on a sleep out at 15 (yes, I threw up). Talked about girls (some lied about how much we knew). The guys I remember would have dived head first into hell to prevent such an injustice. But if they couldn't prevent it, they sure wouldn't have let it go without redress. The WTS did that to them. This is the saddest I've been in a long while. - Buster
October 25, 2002

Comment: We can all click on a link
October 25, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "This is not giving any credit to the magazine's [The Watchtower's] publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with its truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies. He it is that makes possible the material that is published in the columns of this magazine. . " (WT Apr15 1943 127)
October 25, 2002

Comment: Just a note from the webmaster. . . . . . . . . . Much blocking has taken place and I am prepared to block more. Access denial codes are written now and seem to be working just fine. I do not think I have heard the last from anti john however that too is being worked on. Details are not important. . . . . . Hope you all have a restful weekend and find peace in your rest. In Him
October 25, 2002

Comment: Pick up chicks? i am not gay or lesbian LOL NOW THATS FUNNY lol Penny
October 25, 2002

Comment: Hey the anti John guy how old are you 12 or 13? your showing your age by the way your acting like some mr macho and u cant catch me type attitude grow up and act like a adult not some punk
October 25, 2002

Comment: is this anti john guy a good guy or bad? cant figure it out lol Penny
October 25, 2002

Comment: ok i figured it out after scrolling back he is the bad guy lol Penny
October 25, 2002

Comment: ok who said that? i didn't remember ip can be traced
October 25, 2002

Comment: your not acting like the good guy cause you sound like some kid that is playing child games why not just leave and leave us alone Penny
Comment: Who is God's representative??? Jesus. Hard to believe but it is "just" Jesus. God sent him so we might know God, to fulfill the laws and free us from the Pharisees. Go to Jesus and ask Him who represents God here on earth. He will answer you^^^^^^^^^^To mole: the prophecies were from measurements of the pyramids. WTS has not gotten more corrupt, they were corrupt from day one and have been covering up lie upon lie upon lie. Now you know that satan is a liar. And you know that God and Jesus do not lie. So WTS never ever represented God - and while the pedophile issue hits the softness part of our hearts - the heartless one is revealed. Who is the anti-christ??? Who denies Jesus his rightful position? Certainly if they don't give Jesus our Savior His Full Position, certainly these same people don't love anyone except pedophiles and the like. Jesus is the word - the first and the last word. WTS has substituted themselves in as your savior. They rob us of Jesus, the Holy Spirit and our families. My friend john from the bronx always writes freedom in christ. . . . and it has taken me awhile to get what that means. Don't be afraid to listen to the tapes -they will help you. Jesus is calling you out, believe me he is. There is not one thing you can do to save yourself, that Jesus did not already pay for in full price. . . working for the WTS will not save you. The WTS is spiritually disorganized. It is in spiritual chaos. Were the disciples afraid to disagree with Jesus? NO. Were they totally obedient to Jesus. NO. Were they afraid to be themselves? NO. Did they love Him and accept him as their savior? YES. Did Jesus give them a bunch of rules, change the rules, and then change them back? NO Did he free them from the law? YES. Did He die for all. YES. Sit down and have a talk with Jesus. You don't have to believe in a trinity to know that Jesus is your Master. Love, Claudine
October 25, 2002

Comment: Buster - I always have sooo much to say and I cannot think of anything to say that can comfort you. I am sad that you are sad. Love, Claudine
October 25, 2002

Comment: Just a thought about the meek gentlemen at Bethel. \\Do you think that one of them would die to save you? While upstairs they sent the brothers and sisters in Malawi to their deaths? And I remember the letters from Bethel to the congregations to pray for the Malawi's - such evil deception. I remember reading in the yearbook with tears in my eyes about the Malawi's -the brothers and sisters might as well been told to drink "Kool-Aid". It was a Jonestown. Josh- are you not seeing any red flags??? We are not lying to you and we want you to do your own research. Don't be afraid of the truth. WTS doesn't even want you reading their old literature because they know they lied. We want you to read everything - even your bible!!!!!! If we had something to hide or we were lying we wouldn't invite you to read everything you could get your hands on. I know I want to know if I am being lied to or if I believe a lie. We want to be spreaders of the truth and must be sure that we have the truth to spread. I know I do. As far I as KNOW, those meek gentlemen at Bethel would not tell the truth to save you! Another day I will write about The Friends. . . who tell on each other, spy, and other such friendly things. It is sort of like why the government calls death "casualties". . . word games.
October 25, 2002

Comment: Man, Sorry but this ron thompson guy has nothing better to make fun of others, and bash the owner. Pretty pathetic. . . Very pathetic. . .
October 25, 2002

Comment: Buster- some grow up and some do not. I am simply amazed at how many 50-60 year olds that have not become men and women. Have you heard Paul Blizzard's experiences at Bethel. . . he was a bad boy. Very funny stories, wild and crazy guy. My though exactly. . . be grateful that you were pulled out, got out and didn't end up like them. But. . . it is not over until it is over. This may be an opportunity for you to speak or be a comfort to your old friend?? Or maybe down the road. . . this incident is going to wreak havoc in their lives. . . it doesn't go away, but it gets worse. ^^^^^^^ Now I am becoming a debater of religion. . . oh well. . . lol. I just got so jazzed this week with those tapes of exjw's - I am on "fire"!!!!!! Sleep tight. Love Claudine
October 26, 2002

Comment: Well its nice to see a little debate. Ask anyone who has read my post or if you want check them yourself i'm not here to defend the WTS however i'm not here to criticized them either. The faithful slave is given the responsibility of providing us with spiritual food. If it is true that these things have occurred in congregations then those MS o r elders are accountable. Not the WTS. If anyone in Bethel or anywhere else for that matter advised any elders not to go to police then they would be accountable too . Lev5:1 I'm very sure that any true witness of Jehovah God would abhor any such practice and would certainly want to see it fixed up. I Pray for any victims out there that soon justice will be done . a brother the other mentioned that the society may be going through a cleansing process and i really do hope that this evil will be cleansed so that Jehovah's name will be sanctified. So please don't say that the society is covering things up cause i personally know that only 4 weeks ago it was announced that any victims of child molesters could go to police. so how could we be covering anything up. I also know that an incident occurred in our hall well not in the hall but by someone and that person was disfellowshipped when he moved to the neighboring cong however when the elders from the neighboring cong found out the elders in our cong did nothing they were quite surprised. Apparently there excuse was the stories didn't match. so i do know what goes on and i know that these elders will be held accountable. Regards Josh.
October 26, 2002

Comment: Claudine preach it sister i am a born again christian and i have learned what you are speaking of thank you for sharing Penny
October 26, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "It is good to remember there is only one table of the Lord. Ample supply of excellent food is prepared and served there, and , if you know such to be the case, then why go nibbling at the table of those who are opposed to this wise steward of the Master's provisions? You might get spiritual poison, for their food has not been Theocratically tested. Why be concerned with the meager dishes of those outside of God's faithful household when there is so much to digest in the Lord's house? Those who are without are not cooperating with the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society and therefore cannot help you, for they do not have the Lord's blessing, and you will be dishonoring God the Provider. " (WT Aug1 1950 231). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Incredible claims are made here. One must be careful with this type of suggestions.
October 26, 2002

Comment: WOW so if i don't follow the watchtower i cannot be Gods kid? THATS ABSURB !!!!!!!!!!!! The watch tower is a controlling society and i pray every eyes involved in this would open So they believe there the only ones going to heaven? wow are they in for a big surprise LOL Penny
October 26, 2002

Comment: WOW so if i don't follow the watchtower i cannot be Gods kid? THATS ABSURB !!!!!!!!!!!! The watch tower is a controlling society and i pray everyone's eyes involved in this would open So they believe there the only ones going to heaven? wow are they in for a big surprise LOL Penny
October 26, 2002

Comment: To the idiot mentioning tracing IP's: If your not committing libel or putting vulgar posts on, what have you to worry about??? I think that you want to scare people away from Silent Lambs, you will be caught and personally I hope they hang you by your ummm testicles after the horrible things that you've said. This is our guest book and just as in real life if your not doing anything wrong what have you too fear. . . umm unless your a JW that is visiting a forbidden site. . . oooh I think you need to call and confess to the Elders before they find out themselves. Sheila M
October 26, 2002

Comment: josh ;; you keep saying that " the faithful slave has been given the job to give spiritual food at the proper time. . . but that statement can,t be backed up. . . it is all fluff. . . . all the food the wt has served up through the years has be proven to contain poison!!!! the food they serve was never proper, if it has to be changed because it was found to be tainted. how long have you been a follower of the wt?? so now they got new light 4 weeks ago to tell molested children to go to the police. . sounds like they are trying to cover their asses. . . why does the wt new light always come after the fact ,that their old light ran out of time for it to be truth. . . you don't see that . . . . you are bearing false witness in the name of god till you can prove that the wt was chosen by jesus in 1919. . . . you are witnessing presumptuously in the name of god. . . if you know your bible you know what their inspired word of god says about that!!!! let us all see you or any other jw show from what the wt was teaching till 1919 . . that made jesus choose the wt to be the fds. . . you will never honestly answer this . . . if you do it will be your last day in the clutches of the wt. and the day you came to the lord . . . . . your friend ,,john
October 26, 2002

Comment: In the beginning, in the Garden of Eden, there was ONE GOD being worshipped in ONE WAY,TODAY there is still ONE GOD, He still wants to be worshipped in SPIRIT and TRUTH. Not a man made spirit of truth but a God spoken spirit and Truth only found in the bible and understood by the honest at heart.
October 26, 2002

Comment: Josh - the cleansing is people like me or bill or loris,the Andersons or anyone who asks a question, or questions or has one little doubt, or grows a beard, or does anything different. This is why the heavy strict policy of disfellowshipping rules most recently in your Kingdom Ministry. I heard about the cleansing in 1980 - how the "apostates" were cleaned out of bethel. They took the most spiritually clean and cleaned them out. And those folks risked everything so that YOU might not be deceived today. . . they were df'd, and slandered to protect you from the truth. Use to be I could take a book out of the KH library - at this KH can't do this anymore. 1975 came and went - they beat the brothers/sisters who believed them. No one knows when the end will come EXCEPT THE FATHER, AND WTS proclaims they knew since 1870 something. Jesus is the TRUTH, wts CLAIMS THEY ARE THE TRUTH. If only you could just get the meaning of this every time you say "I am in The Truth" and remember that Jesus is the Truth. Buster just told a story that just happen this last week. . . and the story is the same. Nothing has changed. Jesus is going to clean out the WTS of the clean people by opening their eyes to His Truth. Beg Jesus for the truth and he will not lie. Beg Jehovah for the truth and He will not lie. Beg the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you. That is the Father's will and it will be done. Josh - how do you really feel about the pyramid on Russell's grave??? I find that ironic especially since WTS hates the cross idea. Why haven't they removed the pyramid now that the light is brighter??? It is visual evidence of the occult origins for all clean people to recognize. Pray, just pray for truth.
October 26, 2002

Comment: Josh have you taken the time to answer the questions posed at the beginning of this web sight? Will you share with me what you think of them? Are they something that the Elders do or do not do? Yes or no? Does the WTS do these things or not? Yes or no? How does the new policy that you speak of not just fly in the face of Bill's phone call to the WTBS legal department? It seems to me that you only want to see information and facts that support the claim that the wt is god by proxy. And in case you will not look here are the questions. //////Do Jehovah's Witnesses approve, condone, and encourage accused, confessed, and convicted child molesters to call door to door on unknowing potential victims in the witnessing work? Yes or no? Do Judicial Committees require two witnesses to the event of molestation before taking any disciplinary measures? Yes or no? Do elders allow sex offenders complete anonymity when they are discovered? Yes or no? Do they threaten parents of molested children with disfellowshipment if they try to warn other members whose children may be in danger? Yes or no? Does the Service Department remove elders who warn parents of a pedophile member even though the elder is simply attempting to protect the children of the congregation? Yes or no? Does your Kingdom Hall provide significant training on how to direct a molested child to get the help they so desperately need? Yes or no? Or. . . Does the Watchtower Organization advise you that the best way to help a "troubled" person is to instruct them to endure and wait for God's Kingdom to solve their problems? Yes or no? By the way the last statement above in my faith would be considered "Sloth. "-jayson
October 26, 2002

Comment: Headings from book "Make sure of all things hold fast to what is fine. "______________1) ENTIRE ORGANIZATION FUNCTIONS THEOCRATICALLY, FROM GOD(Theos)DOWN____________2) HEAVENLY ORGANIZATION WORKS CLOSELY WITH EARTHLY, PROVIDING STRONG SUPPORT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . If one looks at the predictions that didn't come true, the contradiction of the membership to the United Nations(as a NGO, non government organization)and other embarrassing predicaments, one must truly question the many claims made in the Watchtower publications.
October 26, 2002

Comment: jayson; you just summed the wt in one word. . . they believe them selves to be a PROXY of god!!!!i will not forget that. . . . no noname you talked about adam and eve. . in true worship of god. . . what happened when they ate the bad fruit????? they died. . . right. . . so why should i eat bad fruit from the wt when years before the wt prophecies were proved false , by time . . . i smelled the food was rotten. . . you call following the wt bull . . pleasing to the creator???? you must be joking!!!!! or are you so blind you can/'t see it. . . you still can't answer my questions. . . this has been going on for months. . . . i see right through you . . . . . try that lie in the fs. . . tell me all about the wt and 1919. . . i'm waiting. . . . . . . . for you to bare more false witness . . . . what's that verse you will be condemned by your own words????? freedom in christ to ALL . . . JOHN
October 26, 2002

Comment: Dear John, when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit they were sentenced to death. But they still knew right from wrong, they made that free will choice when tempted by Satan. All I was getting at was at that time in history, There was only ONE way to worship God. Many men were not present just Man, Woman, Satan and God. This is NOT about a Kingdom Hall (JW) or a Stake Center (Mormon) or a Reading Room (Scientologist) or any temple. It is about the only and only true body of Christ made up of believers who are truly searching for a relationship with God. Who are willing to do the necessary research and see for themselves what Truth is not taking any man's word for it. More to the Truth, there are TRUE believers out there in the world all over the place in little pockets. It is each of OUR OWN responsibility to seek so we can find. Not listen so someone can give up their own exegesis (interpretation) of who and what they feel is God and the way He wants us to worship Him. If you have a heart for the Lord, the Lord will help you with your journey.
October 26, 2002

Comment: Dear Jayson , I'm very happy to answer all your questions. However it would be easier to just read my previous posts. yes you always need to witnesses to have a judicial committee and 2 witnesses don't have to be together as long as they have witnessed similar incidents. As far as going to the police if you read my post i said it was announced that any one who wishes to go to the police about any criminal matter can do so. The WTS does not run our lives we are free to do as we choose it is up to us whether we want to live up to bible standards or not. As far as i know apostates are those people who oppose Jehovah not the WTS. People who lie and deceive people about the truth. As i've stated in previous posts if one policeman /woman is corrupt does it mean that the whole force in corrupt. The society has never covered over wrong doing if it did why does it disfellowship people then? There may be individual cases in congregations where perhaps people have gotten away with wrong doing due to some nepotism but those people will ultimately be help accountable. Jehovah sees everything and he will clear it up in due time. Perhaps our patience is not as enduring as his but rest assured he will act. I personally have seen this happen where i know of MS's or Elders who where perhaps not holding to there position or looking after the flock properly and eventually they either stepped down or were removed it may not of happened straight away but it did happen. What i find interesting is Bill Bowden says that he was told not to go to police now i personally emailed him and told him that it was announced in the cong that any parents or victims may go to the police is they so wish, to date i have received no reply i wonder why? Regards Josh
October 26, 2002

Comment: Josh-I will not speak for Bill. But, I will not waste my time with you again. Thank you for making yourself clear as mud. We need no further discussions. -Jayson
October 26, 2002

Comment: If anyone thinks they have "FREE WILL" in the JW faith, YOU have another thing coming. Just speak out when you KNOW something is NOT kosher, do an unpopular deed in a popular camp, go against the grain of ANY body of elders in any kingdom hall when they are not acting according to the will of God and you will find yourself "separated, shunned, tattooed, marked, and it will happen so fast it will make your already clouded head spin right off its shoulders. This is from first hand personal experience. Don't make waves unless you are willing to pay the price like I did, in fact as Bill Bowen has with silentlambs.
October 26, 2002

Comment: The above poster is correct. When the Watchtower say's "Make sure of all things" it is only doing lip service. They should say instead "Keep your thoughts to yourself on all things. "
October 26, 2002

Comment: Josh, Why don't you take some time to read the entire site. How long have you been a witness??? My husband was his whole life and what you say is so dead wrong. You have no clue read become educated and no I have nothing against Jehovah nor does anyone that regularly posts. Sheila M PS The announcement to go to the police is recent read some old literature or better yet talk to someone that has been abused
Comment: Shunning or threatening to shun members because they question appropriate interpretation is abuse. Emotional, Psychological and Spiritual abuse.
October 27, 2002

Comment: Josh 2 Witnesses? GET REAL MAN!!!!! So anyone molested by a JW has to have 2 people that witnessed this molestation? GOD SAW IT and the person that it happened saw it NOW THERE YOU DAMM 2 WITNESSES. Josh NOT one person in here is against GOD but we are against the WATCHTOWER at least i am because they teach lies and they are a cult that twist bible scriptures to do their own agenda SO STOP protecting a group of people that go door to door and openly lie to people about the word of God JW'S are not the TRUE CHURCH those who have received JESUS as their personal savior are the true church now you can hate me for that statement i don't care but i am a born again christian and spend hrs a day in the bible and EVERYTHING JW'S have told me mainly have been lies because i went and studied it myself. THERE A CONTROLLING AN MANIPULATING bunch of people and use manipulation to wean there way into peoples homes and i for one am sick of them doing this THERE SHOULD BE A LAW against them going door to door and spreading their lies Penny
October 27, 2002

Comment: To Josh. . the WTS can SAY anything but it doesn't mean they have to do it or even that the elders have to do it. They are still saying it is reported "in states where it is required. " As far as parents reporting it, do you know how they are treated if they do report it. NO. . . because no one can talk about it so chances are you don't even know of any cases. I asked an elder in my recent congregation about the Othello case. He wouldn't talk to me about it other than to say, "We have been instructed to call the WTS legal dept. " NOT 'we have been told to call the authorities,' NOT 'we encourage the parents to call the authorities. He then said, "And you know kids lie about that stuff. " Later, I learned he had studied with 3 child molesters from the local prison, brought them into the truth and 2 of them molested again. . . in the cong. Yet, he was still defending the molesters. . . Several years ago, I reported a case of child abuse to the elders. . . a JW father and his 15 yr old daughter. Later, the elders came to my house and told my teenager and me that he denied it so we were not to talk about it, even among ourselves or we could be disciplined for slander and gossip. Now mind you, I was so mind-controlled that it didn't even occur to me to go to the police. . I am ashamed to admit it but I just said, Well Jehovah will take care of it. When asking an older sister in a 3rd cong. what she thought of the news article about Othello back in Jan. 02, she said, "That girl has just ruined that brothers reputation. " WHAT IN THE WORLD IS WRONG HERE?
October 27, 2002

Comment: OOPS. . . CONTINUIN
October 27, 2002

Comment: OOPS
October 27, 2002

Comment: KIDS DO NOT LIE ABOUT CHILD MOLESTATION sheesh you people i was called a liar for years and then they found out later on that i was telling the truth you know how? RIGHT before my dad died he admitted he molested me all those yrs. SO before you go accusing a child of lying you better have good proof they are because if there not like i wasn't they will be hurt over and over till someone believes them A lot of the lies come from the adult NOT the child Penny
October 27, 2002

Comment: oops again. . . continuation of letter to Josh. . . WHY AREN'T JW'S OUTRAGED ABOUT THIS? COULD IT BE MIND-CONTROL? And Josh, I was an active JW for 35 yrs. until this abuse issue. Before then, I would have fought to the end that we were not controlled or brainwashed. . and that the WTS was almost infallible. . . and that they would never tolerate child abuse or spousal abuse. Well I was wrong, now 2/3 of my life has been put into this "false religion" and I have to start over. Believe me, its not easy but I have to be true to Jehovah and to myself. Hopefully you too will see the "truth about the truth. " If not, I hope you find peace in your life as a JW. You're going to need all the help you can get. jazbug
October 27, 2002

Comment: More proof as the story above proves that the WTS is disorganized religion. The brothers are under the grips of unholy spirit protecting pedophiles rather than faithful families and their children. Calling themselves The Friends does not make them friends of Jesus or God or you and me. NOW WE HAVE TWO RECENT STORIES IN TWO DAYS ABOUT PEDOPHILES WINNING THE HEARTS OF THE ELDERS. . . WHILE THE FAMILIES AND CHILDREN ARE DISMISSED, PUT OFF, RIDICULED. . . ABANDONED. JOSH ARE YOU LISTENING TO THESE STORIES AND TAKING THEM TO HEART? THESE CRIMES ARE HAPPENING TO YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS. . . . your friends, The Friends. We are talking tragedy and no love or spiritual food for those you are suffering. The pedophile gets "fed" while the victims of him can go hungry! WTS will clean out the org by starving out the true lovers of God. Will you be one of them? Hopefully you will. Love, Claudine
October 27, 2002

Comment: Jazzbug - what theses elders are doing is convoluted, so sick, so evil and wicked. . . jw defenders are just that, defending men who are wrong is nothing more than idol worship. Elders have been given the status of "Jesus" and they do not defend Christ or Jehovah but their own reputations. . . as if God can't see and smell filth. ^^^^^^^WTS controls the conscience of people which is the opposite of freedom.
October 27, 2002

Comment: DNA makes a wonderful second witness.
October 27, 2002

Comment: Excellent - DNA as a witness. Now you just have to convince the parents that they will not be bringing reproach on God's name by proving the pedo a pedo and a liar. . . DNA is too logical, practical, child might not tell while there is evidence. But you are absolutely correct. Once a month on sunday - they need to talk to the whole congregation as to what pedophilia is, how to prevent it from happening, exactly what is to be done if it does happen, how it will be handled, they could even invite someone from the community who is an expert to give the children and the parents the support of the elders and to put a pedophile on notice, that this congregation is educated. . . and will prevent this from happening with education. Every month once a month until the Kingdom Comes. They should have silentlambs brochures at the DESK, and they should have some sort of program for those who have been molested. WTS does not love the sheep. . . their food is old, and worn, not nutritious. The can of worms at the congregation in my area would be opened. . . Anyway if WTS cared they would take care of their sheep with a zero tolerance thru education monthly. . . some obscure 1993 awake? has not done the job anymore than letters from the governing body to the elders- obviously. Say one thing do another. Teach one thing do another. Call dirty clean, bad good, wrong is right. . . move to another congregation, keep quiet, don't rock the boat, status quo,. . . or be dismissed and called apostate because you won't contribute an ounce of your loyalty to God to "something" that calls themselves the faithful & discreet slave. Would one rather lay their burden down at the foot of jesus or be stepped upon by an "organization" whose founder has a pyramid on his grave and says one thing, does another?
October 27, 2002

Comment: NOTICE!!! BRITISH AIRWAYS SPECIAL for flights to London for the Silentlambs UK March on March 29, 2003! *** This just rolled in from the New York Times' Travel Deals email/newsletter *** New York Times' "Deals & Discounts" Travel Email for Sunday 10-27-02 *** *** FLEXIBLE FARE *** Through midnight tomorrow, British Airways has round-trip fares between Kennedy or Newark Liberty and London for $248, good for travel through March 31. And once the fare is booked, passengers can change their travel dates without penalty. By reserving at www. british airways. com/fallsale, an extra $10 is taken off the fare. In conjunction with this fare, there are hotel rooms at nine London hotels starting at $32 a night a person, based on double occupancy. From Washington or Baltimore, the fare is $298; from Chicago, $328. And from New York, the round-trip fare to Paris is $320, Zurich and Geneva, $372. Other European cities are available. Fares are good for travel Monday through Wednesday, and higher fares apply Dec. 18 to 23. Other restrictions and fees apply. ------------- The SL-March is set for Saturday, March 29, 2003. To make use of the above deal, we'd have to depart London on Monday, March 31. Could arrive anytime Monday through Wednesday prior to the SL-March, March 24-25-26. *** The only "problem" with the above NY Times' deal is the DEADLINE! Must book by Monday night at midnight. . . i. e. , tomorrow night at midnight, 10/28/02. *** Later Gators/SLC!
October 27, 2002

Comment: Hi all been out for a while, keep up the gods work will check in from time to time
October 27, 2002

Comment: It's not propaganda. And if you were not part of the problem you would see that. -Jayson
October 27, 2002

Comment: Oh ya and why don't you take your bigoted words like "apostate" and shove it!
October 27, 2002

Comment: Thank you to the above poster for the Watchtower style scare of the month. Thank you about talking about freedom of thought. That's funny coming from a Watchtower supporter.
October 27, 2002

Comment: Also please remember: The word Apostate means someone who has completely forsaken their his religion, faith, political party, or principles. So the dictionary tells us it is not just someone who left the Jehovah's Witness! Get a life people. Half the world's people including Jehovah's Witness are apostate if you left another religion or political party. The Jehovah's Witness try to redefine 'apostate' to mean someone who left only their group. WRONG!!! Give it up Watchtower from using apostate as your dirty little smear word.
October 27, 2002

Comment: It is extremely hard to separate this issue of pedophilia from the(propaganda) of two witnesses that are needed/the peer pressure to shut up and move to another congregation because we LOVE the pedophile and your child LIES. . I am sorry but how can you read Buster's story and jazbug and call our support propaganda????? The two witness "theory" is the biggest propaganda I ever heard in my life!!! Look up the word propaganda. You work for a "company" that does not pay you. . . . you do not work for God but the WTS only. You show no compassion, no intelligence, no love - and I am supposed to believe you have God, represent God, have the spirit of God??? ##### I am beginning to think that the WTS and those that support "it" are so arrogant to think they can bring reproach on Jehovah. . . as if you were so important to God that you are capable of doing that. Take care of your babies and protect them- you guys cannot even do that!!! Almighty God is in control. . . not the WTS. I am pissed - sorry. You bring reproach on yourselves as parents and human beings.
October 27, 2002

Comment: You have the freedom to worship anything you want. You have the freedom to go door to door. You have the freedom to believe what you want. . . and now you want the freedom to come here. . . . since we took our freedom and fled from the WTS and came here. Where is your meekness and humble & mild spirit?
October 27, 2002

Comment: Well, can't we consider it a compliment to be apostates of the WTS ??? You know you JW defenders won't take the time, or the risk to verify the things said here. But you will take the time to criticize the truth we tell you. There is a proverb about looking at a situation before you respond. Most of us here use to be where you were. . . we know both sides now. Many people here have done their research, and have had personal experiences to relate to us. The word apostate use to scare the beejees out of me one year ago. . . after doing a little research myself I found that the WTS is apostate and does not teach the true teachings of the Bible. We are afraid for you and your families and your children. And we are not going to call you anything worse than a JW defender or brainwashed, or clone. I know what you mean when you say apostate. . . you mean we are dead. None of us here wish you dead, or would give you up with such contempt. Most here are fighting "for you" because you are serving the wrong master.
October 27, 2002

Comment: It appears we still have a continuing problem here of people using this Guestbook for a forum on doctrine. What a shame. Victims of abuse come here to read others stories so they won't feel they are alone, and to maybe even post their own stories hoping for some compassion and understanding, and maybe even receive some much needed help and love. I am so glad that Bill Bowen is about to change the format of this site, or at least the way the guestbook is run, so maybe the victims will receive the help they truly want and need. There are so many sites available to banter back and forth over doctrine, argue to your hearts content, yet you still choose to do it here. Thank goodness and Thank Bill Bowen for the upcoming changes in this site. If any victims visiting here want someone to talk to, share stories with, or just want to make some friends, email me and let's talk. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail. com
October 27, 2002

Comment: This is primarily a site for abuse victims not protected by the Watchtower Society. No doubt about it. But there are also other problems. There is the abuse of being lied to, cover ups, threatened with destruction if on leaves the so called 'Truth'. In many ways they all help to keep people in bondage(thinking there is no where else to go). Point is this. There is no use trying to change the cover up of abuse in one area, and pretending that all is well with the rest of the Organization. It will not change! And why would it? They have Gods blessing on their side. Shunning is an issue here for example. But shunning is an issue in more than one way. Common symptom of many problems.
October 27, 2002

Comment: i personally liked having the anti- john and all the jwd's around. . . so all the readers if this site can see the side of the jw's that they don't show you when they come to your door, and try to get you in a study. . you know how loving the wt is and all the support you will get being a jw??? the jwd's are a great help in exposing how the wt will treat you once you find they are only interested in how much time you spend in the fs. . don't have enough money to pay the rent. . . quit your job, get welfare,say you are disabled and become a full time pioneer. . . don't have money for food??? work less hours on your job. so you qualify for food stamps and you can put more time in the field. . in the co-op city cong. bronx this is the normal way many sisters get the money to to live . by crying to the gov't that they can't work . . but they are out all day pounding the area. they lie to the gov't for financial aid. . if you can stand on your feet all day pushing wt's then you can get a job. i personally know a couple dozen jw's that operate like this. . . they are hypocrites. cursing the gov't , but bitching if their . . gov't check is a day late. . . . john
October 27, 2002

Comment: I want to comment on DNA as evidence: True story that happened less than two years ago. Little girl was raped by teenage boy, girl went immediately to her mother. Police were contacted (PO was contacted later and his comment was: I wish you hadn't called the police) Child was taken to hospital for a rape test, boy was prosecuted and convicted. To the elders it didn't matter what the results of a rape test showed, the boy was innocent because he didn't confess to them! Therefore it was okay, no it was the RIGHT thing to do---to persecute the victim's family. The total support of the congregation was given to the pedophile (after he returned from prison) and to his family. Finally the victim's family was driven from the hall. So much for truth so much for DNA. . . . . Something is seriously wrong with people in a congregation who obey elders without conscious. Without compassion for the innocent victims.
October 27, 2002

Comment: It is the doctrine that has caused the problem of cover-up. It is the doctrine of shunning/disfellowshipping that causes families that have been harmed to shut-up and put-up. It is the doctrine that makes people fear leaving and be forever alienated from God and their dear love ones. It is the doctrine that asks them to wait on Jehovah instead of go to the police. I sincerely believe that one cannot do what is right for themselves or others without terrible emotional cost with these doctrines in tact as "truth and reality. " When I left I felt so scared that I was condemned by God. . . and without knowing the how and why I came to believe this as true had to be dispelled. I found this here, not at jw. com. I found answers with Ray Franz's book and being able to talk about it. Even, john from the bronx with his freedom in christ had a profound effect on my thinking. It is the doctrine that prevents victims going to the police. I have complained that to discuss doctrine and IGNORE the victims is not what this site is about. But the doctrine has to be dispelled as part of the comfort. I am grateful anti-john and his filth is gone. . . that was disturbing. Of what good is it to leave, be in the pain of having been molested and also think that Jehovah might hate you. Of course, we always hope that a JW defender might start thinking and be able to help if they remain in the congregations by what they learn here. ***** A question to ask: why would a normal person expect two witnesses to an act of pedophilia or accept this agenda as normal, rational, just, merciful and christian? This is happening because they are JW's and what they have been taught to believe by WTS doctrine.
October 27, 2002

Comment: I am so sorry to hear this story -about this little girl. . JOSH>>>>ARE YOU READING THIS???? Here we have a brave little girl, smart enough to go to her mommy. We have a smart and loving mother who does all that the law recommends and the FRIENDS are her ENEMY. Now we have three stories in 3 days that support the pedophile and alienate the victims. A sister who is punished for doing the right thing, had proof, went to court and the guy went to jail. . . and she is punished by her brothers & sisters -THE FRIENDS. Probably that Elder, that congregation didn't read 10/93AWake? Or forgot? But the love of God should be in their hearts and it isn't. I know I wouldn't want these people as my friends. ****TO THE PERSON WHO WROTE THIS STORY- I hope that your friend will call Bill. How good to know there are parents who pursue justice and protect their children regardless of the "peer" pressure to not do so. ****
October 27, 2002

Comment: I believe that love is stronger than doctrine. It was my own silence about the mental abuse that I went through, mine. I could have stopped it by just saying NO MORE! But I did not know how to do that, I felt that I was alone. I felt that I would pay some kind of price like "they" won't like me any more. (HA they never did. ) Now I see that I chose to imprison myself. And now I am free by my own choice. No more shakels and it feels good. That is the spirit of this site. YOU CAN LIVE AGAIN! God lives in "you" not in Brooklyn. Or any other organization. They only exist in your head. /// You are not alone. You were wronged. We accept you as you are. And WTBS BUTT OUT! (And some here will sue you. And some here have put, and will put more bad guys in jail (yeppie!)///The org does "do" the questions that I posed by cronies and it is PATHETIC!///Funny that one will talk of "slander" and lawsuits and then use inflaming words towards 80% of the people's comments. (Huh isn't that cute. ) I have grown to enjoy talking to many people here. I am lucky to have found the Silentlambs. It is an honor and pleasure. ///"John" speaks of Philippians 4:14 by freedom. I have the coffee mug. FREEDOM THROUGH (and in) CHRIST. You just keep doing what you do people. Thank you for it. -Jayson
October 27, 2002

Comment: Occasionally I listen to Skip from Santa Cruz, Living on the Edge Home Page is the site address. He is doing four tapes on Hypocrisy. He is not heavy duty, but he is biblically correct and the first tape gives simple examples. Jesus hates hypocrites and no one can disagree with that! The definition from dictionary: a person who pretends to have moral, or religious beliefs, principles, etc. he does not actually possess. One who pretends to be what he is not. These last stories have made me heartsick and I pray that the victims will flee to freedom and know that the yoke of Jesus is light. Wts is a 3rd world religion. . . 3rd world mentality and turns people into fearful to even think, be informed or treated with the respect and dignity that every child of God deserves.
October 27, 2002

Comment: freedom in christ; gal5:1-7 2:4-5 3: gal 1 their is only one hope we are all sons of abraham gal 3 : all to end no man is my superior;; 1 pet 2 1pet 5 mt 20:25-28 mt 23 2 cor 11: 20-21 etc.
October 27, 2002

Comment: I would be curious if anyone has had success in giving a brochure to a JW? If so which one? I have been thinking of writing up my own, tying in the pedophilia with the lack of freedom in Christ. Anyway, just wondered what works. I am not DF'd because I was never baptized, not sure if I have been marked. I do know some hurting witnesses who know I am kind and they are not the "in" crowd. I want a reputation with the witnesses in my area that if they are ever in trouble they know they can come to me for straight answers and spiritual support. Any suggestions? The congregation I attended was entrenched in cover up of sexual molestation that happen years ago. Last year 2001, they had a pedophile who was a study, who went out in service. . . I only heard that thru "gossip" - one night they announced the study was to be treated as someone of the world. No reason given. I see the witnesses from time to time and would like something to give them that will make them think and not be threatened or afraid to read it. I have confronted the sisters when I have seen them with the UN, pedophile/2 witnesses, and the Malawi's but they ran from me. . . or invited the Elders to come talk to me. . . . LOL. I need a softer approach and that is a challenge for a straight-shooter like me. Love, claudine
October 27, 2002

Comment: Read the scriptures above - Mat 23:2 states in Jesus' own words: The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. ****The WTS have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. There are 39 verses that follow with nothing good to say about those seated in the seat of Moses!
October 27, 2002

Comment: I feel this is too horrible for words, I have been trying to fight pedophiles for only a few short yrs, mostly due to my daughter who was raped and sodomized at the very young age of 2 yrs old. and I do the best I am able to do, in her name and for all children, but to read about any so called christian org that allows this makes me want to literally scream!!!!! and I have tears now in my eyes, this is soo so sick, I have a 13 yr old daughter, and may GOD help the man / woman who ever ever tries to hurt her!!!!! these people need to be put in prison till death, or to get the death penalty, in which I am truly in favor of. GOD does not want any child of his to be abused. please!! e mail me @ anti_childporn@yahoo. com peace, anti
October 28, 2002

Comment: i feel so good; i just blasted hillary clinton. . i emailed her 2 months ago and have not received a reply. . . so she got what she had coming. . hope my words make her feel bad and she makes laws against child molesters. like the wt in new york. . . if she does nothing then she is what i thought of her all the time . in it all for her self. . and i told her that. . . . john
October 28, 2002

Comment: Thank you Jazbug for being more gentle to Josh than I was. Please forgive me Josh for being blunt. I too spent 37 years as an active witness believing that the Watchtower Society was almost infallible. This abuse issue began my awakening from the mind controlled stupor. The abuse cases that I was personally aware of I thought were isolated instances of an individual "sick" congregation. I too was wrong,I too have invested 2/3 of my life into this "false religion" and I too have to start over. I was forced to make a choice. I had to agree to stop speaking with anyone about these abuse issues as well as any mention of the U. N. fiasco or else face disfellowshipping. I am an extremely quiet and shy person. It is not like I was picketing the Kingdom Hall. I talked about it to my immediate family and two other sisters in my congregation. But there I was, being ordered by the elders to shut up or else! I told them, "So much for freedom of speech. " I could not bear to have the announcement at the KH to be "Sister Loris M has been disfellowshipped for conduct unbecoming of a Christian. " So I finally refused to meet with the elders again for the third time over this issue. I told them I would never come back to the KH. To me being disassociated is better than being branded immoral, etc. At least the people at the hall would know that my leaving is a religious issue not a moral one. At least I could control that. Anyway Josh, don't let angry people like me drive you away. You are welcome here and we need all the positive people we can get to help the damaged lambs regain a trust in humanity. Stay in the congregation as long as you can to be a positive influence in whatever small way you can. If someday you choose to leave, the outside is an amazingly friendly place where you can find people who sincerely love Jah and his dear son Jesus. Love Ya'll, Loris
October 28, 2002

Comment: man this person sounds like a 12 yr old kid and not some adult most MATURE adults do not act like this person Penny
October 28, 2002

Comment: Greetings guestbook friends, we are working to make this a more comfortable place to submit your thoughts. Thank you for your patience. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . webmaster
October 28, 2002

Comment: penny I'm not 12 you are
October 28, 2002

Comment: WISDOM FROM THE WATCHTOWER "They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom". Many had emphasized the year 1925. . " (WT Feb 15 1938 54) Please notice that back in 1938 the Organization tried to distance itself with words like 'Many' even though it was them. Some things never change.
October 28, 2002

Comment: if your not 12 why u acting it? i am 38 bye the way Penny

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